The so called objective is obviously crap. Capture Bin Laden, you'll never convince me or most reasonable people that he had anything to do with it. If they wanted to find him they would have. They shouldn't have flown his family out of the US after 9/11, when someone commits a crime if you cant question the suspect you question the family and friends. There was a total failure to do so.

If your other two objectives were to destroy AQ and the Taliban then it just goes to show the US and UK armies aren't quite what they used to be, you have failed miserably !

AQ is stronger than ever and the longer an imperialist army strolls through Afghanistan the lmore support those who stand against them will gain support. It is a war that cannot and will not be won. The mighty red army could not take Afghanistan, and i hate to break it you but you guys are no red army.

Funny then, isn't it, that we find ourselves fighting side by side with the Afghanis.


No what is funny is you find yourself fighting against Afghans, well not really funny, just sick. You see when the media say you have killed so many taliban, people just dont believe it. Like when the US used to say so many Vietcong were killed, we later found it they weren't Vietcong at all, they were just Vietnamese and these people are just Afghans. Afghans who resent foreign armies patrolling their country.


If the Afghans really wanted the path that the US has dictated for them they wouldn't be shooting at you and blowing you up. They would be flooding to join thhe army and police. They would have a strong majority that could easily defeat the so called fringe extremist Taliban, but this is nowhere near happening.


I know the Taliban are far from nice, i would have realised this when they castrated and killed Najibullah. People like you probably viewed that as a success though.

My enemies are the people who start these wars, the Neo Con and New Labour machines. These people have brought more death and destruction to the world than Talibanor AQ could ever dream of. It is their actions which allowed the circumstances to flourish that brought the death of all those people in London and Madrid. That makes them the biggest villains of the piece.

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Viva Fidel

If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?

And its not any better now. Western democracy cannopt be propelled upon a people who do not want it. You have two governments stuck in compounds in the capitals. They are impotent to do anything. Instead countries are governed at a local level by foreign armies and warlords. This is no better than it was before and it will not get better.

What do you call real freedom then? The freedom to have minority governments and foreign armies imposed upon you. The freedom to chose between puppet A and puppet B at an election.


The people you call extremists are just ordinary people. The irony is if foreign armies were effectively running the people who support these invasions country and controlled their every move, had destroyed their economy and made them unemployed and unable to fend for their family - they would be out on the streets fighting this injustice. However, when we do it to others we say we are giving them freedom and they should support us and appreciate it, if they dont they are extremists and terrorists. It's complete hypocrisy.

Yeah like the US or UK will recognise elections once they result is not favourable. What if the Iraqi's or AFghans want to elect a Hamas ? We all know what will happen then.

They simply do not care about democracy or these peoples freedom, they care about their own interests, end of.

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Viva Fidel

If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?

By such statements you simply demonstrate a lack of knowledge on the subject. The Taliban movement does not comprise just ordinary Afghans who resent foreign armies patrolling their land. They are fundamentalist insurgents originating in the frontier tribal areas of Pakistan and most of the present day Taliban fighters are new recruits, drawn from that region's madrassas. They are mainly Pakistani and foreign fighters. So much for fighting against Afghanis!

They aren’t. The Taliban insurgents are the ones shooting at us. Oh, and the US didn’t determine the future path of Afghanistan. That was determined by the the Afghanis themselves with the help of the UN at the ‘Bonn Conference’which also included delegations from Russia, India and Iran.

They have been. The Afghan National Army now stands at 76,000 fully trained troops. The Afghan National Police force is also now over 70,000 in strength. Strange as it may seem to you, the ANA is taking over more of the fighting on a daily basis. They also fight against the Taliban insurgents you know.

As for easily defeating the Taliban, clearly you know nothing about guerrilla warfare. If you are interested, a good learning start point would be the troubles in Malaya. I guess you’ll prefer to remain an armchair pundit though.

Try posting facts instead of emotional rhetoric.

Proof ??? In years to come we will find out just like Vietnam that you stooges are fighting ordinary people who want youy off their land. The AFghans have never accepted foreign armies and they won't start now, especially where Britain is involved.

And that conference was a farce. It took a few Afghans and foreigners to supposedly decide the future path for the country, and that is supposed to be democracy.


That should tell you something. In a country of 30,000,000 plus you can find 140,000 willing to join the security services. The majority of Afghans want nothing to do with the puppet satellite state being built.


Yeah, i'll stay as a pundit and you can keep being an invader with blood on your hands. I know which role i prefer.

If a government cannot protect itself from the populous it doesn't deserve to exist. That is a sign of its incompetence and insignificance to the people. But being nothing but a hired killer i assume you don't have the philosophical or intellectual capability to even comprehend that.


Try taking your own advice.

When you going back anyway ? Dont you have women and children to be killing, and resources to be looting ?

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Viva Fidel

If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?

Uncalled for, Joe. It would be about as relevant for me to say, "Shouldn't you get back to raping your mother about now?"

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"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
- The Declaration of Independence

Yes, tells me a lot. Like you don't even know the strength of the British army.
It's 100,000 out of a population of 60 million. So what's your point?



I shall not respond to such disgusting personal accusations, but I am reporting you. End of any debate with you old chap.

The difference being that he is part of an imperialist army that engages in the activities that i describe. Oh and i forgot child molestation, that seems to be another one of their passtimes, in Iraq at least.

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Viva Fidel

If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?

I dont see that in Iraq. Sure they have a lot of protection, but they also have a lot of support and security forces and sunnis and shiites alike are turning against radicalism and fighting. Obviously there will be some loose ground at first but its already proved to many peopel that it is becoming more effective. Maliki claims he doesnt need any more US help in Iraq, thats not impotency. Afghanistan has more local tribes but the "warlords" are mostly gone or driven out by revolutionaries during the overthrow of the Taliban and after Karzai took power. Its slower in Afghanistan, its more spread out and is coming from the most poor of backgrounds os its building from the ground up most of the time, but there has been significant improvement.

An overwhelming majority of the populations are happy about the removal of the previous regimes and welcome democracy--they still live with the fear of such enemies as AL-Queda, the Taliban, and other murderers--but now that everyone is turning against such outlaws, that threat is diminishing. The Taliban, no matter how many people they kill, will never win.

Puppets? Allies maybe, but not puppets. If they were puppets they would never voice criticism of the allied and US forces or make their own decisions and rulings which Im sure youve heard of. If they were puppets we would have silenced them like grand mother russia in the 50s and 60s in all their little satellites.

Wrong. Ordinary people do not go around mass murdering innocents, or butchering people in death sqauds. They also do not blow themselves up killing dozens in a market square. Because if those are ordinary people--then no one is not ordinary. Maybe thats the case, but it hardly supports any arguement. AL-Queda, religous zealots and warlords came into Iraq, or rose to power and corrupted many people to do their work. They werent rebels or freedom fighters, they were killers. Corrupted by wrong ideas, but it doesnt change anything. Read about this guy, an inside story. Pretty badass besides...:

New boss turns the tables on Al Qaeda -- chicagotribune.com

This thinking is a result of misinformation. Youd be surprised how few people followed the thinking you say. There was no popular uprising against the coalition forces in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The peoples of both nations greeted Americans as liberators...only insurgent forces of the previous regimes fought on. The Baathists failed to do so, and have since rejoined the governement peacefully. The Taliban have survived in the mountains as hillbillies, not much to be done about them but crack down and make them keep losing hundreds of fighters to get a shot at one allied troop.

But no, these arent freedom fighters. Thats for sure. Unless you consider Fatah-al-Islam, Islamic Jihad, and Al-Queda to be freedom fighters. They're all real big on freedom as we all know.

I highly doubt that will happen since Hamas or any other such groups like Sadr hold much support and since Sadr will not be taking part in the election--which he said himself. Those groups dont beleive in democracy they refuse to take part in it, which to them makes them think they are supporting it.

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"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)

Comrade Joe: "You stooges?" You mean like me and others that served in Vietnam? And it was stooges like me that served and came out AGAINST Nam that made a real difference.

I do not see that Afghanistan is in the same category as Nam and Iraq. Get off of your communist agenda.

Originally Posted by Comrade Joe
When you going back anyway ? Dont you have women and children to be killing, and resources to be looting ?

This is my first and last warning about cheap shots. Do it again and you will have an infraction.

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National Debt =

I wouldnt throw Iraq and Nam in quite the same boat.

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"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)