Well, the point most people try to forget is that the arabs did fight on the side of the nazis. There was some wholesale country making and breaking - redefining all sorts of borders - Israel is just one case. An equally sensitive one - as the recent attack in India shows - is Kashmir was given to India during the split of that area into two countries - India and Pakistan. That makes the ruling class Hindu and the underclass mainly Moslem.

So if the Israelis all go peacefully into the coean and drown - there will still be nuclear warfare between muslim and hindu nations.

__________________
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
Ernest Benn

Point of fact - the palestinians did start it before Israel existed - and the arab countries fought on the side of the nazis. Second fact - look at how much we give in aid to arab countries and you'll see it's a lot more even than politics would tell you.

Here's some history - A Bunch of Pages: US Aid to Israel - do Egypt and KSA figure?

Israel has received more direct aid from the United States since World War II than any other country, but the amounts for the first half of this period were relatively small. Between 1949 and 1973, the U.S. provided Israel with an average of about $122 million a year, a total of $3.1 billion (and actually more than $1 billion of that was loans for military equipment in 1971-73) . Prior to 1971, Israel received a total of only $277 million in military aid, all in the form of loans as credit sales. The bulk of the economic aid was also lent to Israel. By comparison, the Arab states received nearly three times as much aid before 1971, $4.4 billion, or $170 million per year. Moreover, unlike Israel, which receives nearly all its aid from the United States, Arab nations have gotten assistance from Asia, Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union and the European Community.

Yes, the aid to Israel during the first period was substantial, before it became enormous! What is conveniently forgotten, is that during this period, Europe under the guilt of the Holocaust was supporting and aiding Israel as zealously as the US. Stalin too had understandings with the Zionist State, as the transfer of the Jewish population from SU to Palestine suited the racist ideologies of both Stalin and the Jewish Agency.


Israel did not begin to receive large amounts of assistance until 1974, following the 1973 war, and the sums increased dramatically after the Camp David agreements. Altogether, since 1949, Israel has received more than $90 billion in assistance. Though the totals are impressive, the value of assistance to Israel has been eroded by inflation.
The 1973 war was hardly a loss for Israel to necessitate huge military aid to save a weak state. The 1973 war was, rather the decisive war in which Soviet and American military equipment, especially electronic warfare equipment competed in a real situation. The Soviet advantage in this field that was displayed in the early stages of the war was effectively beaten down very quickly. While the Arab states depended on military purchases from a closed entity, the Israeli side had access to the latest stuff right out of American labs. How the value of assistance has been eroded by inflation is anybody's guess. I thought 1973 dollars were worth more according to inflation.


Arab states that have signed agreements with Israel have also been rewarded. Since signing the peace treaty with Israel, Egypt has been the second largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid ($2 billion in 2002, Israel received $2.8 billion). Jordan has also been the beneficiary of higher levels of aid since it signed a treaty with Israel (increasing from less than $40 million to more than $225 million). The multibillion dollar debts to the U.S. of both Arab nations were also forgiven.

Here's the congressional report on aide abroad. 403 Forbidden

__________________
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
Ernest Benn

Horse doo-doo

There are good people who want peace on both sides - there are bad people who want to kill to gain territory on both sides. In some areas there was coexistance - which is why there are so many palestinian Israelis - and ironically the arabs with the most protected civil rights in the ME are the Israeli ones.

__________________
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
Ernest Benn

Not really, people really were kicked out of their homes. I know a Palestinian who lives in Lebanon now but knows my friend's family, who was a kid when her and her parents were forced out.

__________________
"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

My husband's family are Syrian/Lebanese - we were bringing some folks over during the bombing. People like to oversimplify and create villains on one side - there is more than one side here. There is both villainy and pain enough for both sides, and before the creation of Israel by the Balfour declaration and the UN.

Please note this is about the Palestine of the British mandate which included Transjordan (now Jordan) and Israel, and the ugliness between the Jewish commmunity and the arabs was already an issue. BTW - there has been a continuous Jewish presence in that area since Roman times - so some of what you would call Palestinians were Jews.

There's a lot more at the souce - a UK and neutral one.

If we want to debate this we should start a thread - not sure if it belongs in religion.

__________________
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
Ernest Benn

Interesting how you simply deflected that without really answering to anything.

__________________
"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

No it is not. How can it be when situations like this commonly exist?


An Afghan lawyer defending a journalist on death row in Kabul has been bombarded with death threats urging him to drop the case. Islamic extremists have repeatedly threatened to murder Afzal Nooristani after he agreed to defend Sayed Pervez Kambaksh in a high-profile appeal against his death sentence.

The defendant’s crime? The 23-year-old student writer was sentenced to death for circulating an article about women's rights. He was tried in a closed court, and denied a defence lawyer.

Islamists threaten to murder lawyer defending Pervez - Asia, World - The Independent


In the lands of Islam, tolerance appears to be a word that is neither recognised or practised.

__________________
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Sir Winston Churchill

My case in point would be the woman that was hanged in Iran. Her crime was at her "trial" - which means being brought before a religious leader who has total control in assessing the case. She spoke up in her own defense. The religious leader regaurded this as disrespectful.

However, all the Muslims I have known in America are secular oriented and appreciate the standard of living in America. They do not follow the ultra traditional ways of the mideast and do not support terrorism.

__________________
National Debt =

Interesting how you obviously didn't follow up on the broader picture with a neutral link - or your own links. I mentioned family that had been rescued from bombing by the Israelis - but also pointed out that there were two sides doing wrong.

You tell me that because you know someone who knows someone who was kicked out of their home you believe the only problem in the mideast is that "the Zionists waltzed in to Palestine and started kicking people out of their homes at gunpoint and terrorist attacks." I still think that statement is horse doo-doo, and I posted why I think so.

If you care to make your question more obvious, I will happily answer to it - however, be aware that I am quite convinced there are very few conflicts in the world where only one side is at fault.

__________________
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
Ernest Benn

Oh, good, you aren't a total pro-Israel nut.

I have largely the same view of this whole thing as you.

__________________
"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.