The following video is an excerpt from the documentary Jesus Camp, which I will be looking at to assess homeschooling in America: YouTube - scene from jesus camp

This video alarms me in several areas, so I want to discuss them with everybody else. I'd like everyone to look at these few points and comment on them, agreeing or disagreeing as you see fit.

1. "The Big Bang - is it based upon.... a BELIEF?"

To me, this is a complete switcharoo. The Big Bang has scientific evidence that leans toward it. No, it's not certain, but it's generally accepted as being pretty close to how the universe was formed, if not the answer itself. On the other hand, Creationism (aka Religion) is a belief that comes from an ancient book. Do they realize that they have it backwards? I can't tell if they're being dishonest or if they're really that deluded.

2. "One popular thing to do in American politics is to note that the summers in the United States over the past few years have been very warm. As a result, Global Warming must be real."

The mother seems to think that she's preparing her son for intellectual debates in the future. Now, besides the fact that everything they're doing is totally despicable, even within their own ballpark she is doing him harm. When he grows up and encounters REAL scientists, he may find that his Bible school studies aren't as helpful as the fake scenarios he was pitched his whole life. This is also why I disagree with homeschooling in general - cloistering is not a solution, and I say that on their behalf, for their own mega-religious purposes.

3. "Did you get to the part on here that says that science doesn't prove anything?"

...No comment.

4. "Our nation was founded on Judaeo-Christian values. We know when things started changing, you know, prayer got taken out of school, and.. the school started falling apart."

I vote we prosecute the woman for child abuse, educational abuse, and treason. Now, I'm aware that public schools are in dire need of reform, so I'm hesitant to criticize homeschooling very openly, but this is a classic example of brainwashing and it NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. Even if they were teaching their kids properly, they still wouldn't be preparing them because all the "scenarios" from their little workbooks do not accurately reflect real life problems.

5. *smug look* "Our firm belief is, there are two kinds of people in the world... people who love Jesus and people who don't. And I want my kids to grow up knowing, you know what? It's a good thing to be a Christian!"

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Oh, so it's okay for your damned government indoctrination centers to brainwash people but it's wrong for parents - WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR EDUCATING THEIR CHILDREN - to do so?

There not your kids: keep your damned hands off!

Of course, it's clear that you have animus toward evangelical Christians based on your comments. Therefore, nothing you say is valid. What you SHOULD have gotten from Jesus Camp is the danger posed by those Christians who are following after dominion theology and/or Christian Reconstructionism.

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

For a second, try to stop acting like a fool.

1. The government's not indoctrinating kids by teaching them evolution, which is most likely what you are whining about. That the parents or kids disagree with something that's taught does not by default make it wrong or brainwashing. If that were the case, than algebra and germ theory could be considered brainwashing. That's absurd on its face.

2. Secondly, the parents are not the only ones responsible for the education of their children, and this hasn't been so even in puritanical America, which was one of the first groups to institute publicly funded education. The state has a valid interest in educating citizens, given they vote and help make policy regarding others and are the future human capital. Take a step back from the LoLbertopia fantasy world you live in and recognize reality doesn't conform to it, hun.

When they are someone else's kids or not is irrelevant. You may not beat your children to death, despite them being yours. Logically, this implies we place limitations upon the rights of parents. Parents do not have ultimate authority over the lives and wellbeing of their children, as they are not property. There are limitations on what you can do and enforced standards of welfare. This isn't a free for all, so stfu already. No one cares what you have to think. You're crazy. Period. If it were up to you, according to your logic, parents could starve their kids to deaths. Just. Stop. Talking. Stop. You're digging yourself so deeply into a hole you've reached Wonderland.


Your assertion that, since he has something against Christianity, all his statements suddenly become invalid is the most moronic logic I seen you use yet.

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Warning about putdowns.

Please respond to the CONTENT of someone's reply without characterizations of the person posting the reply.

From my personal experience homeschooled students come out one of two ways, either extremely religious (as in the case you pointed out) or extremely smart (like get B.A. in molecular egineering by 15).

Unfortunately, you can't stop this brain washing, even if you force the students to go to school, they still have to live with their parents and so are going to spend more time with them than at school, and the parents will just find a private school that will do the 'dirty' work for them. The only 'solution' is one that I'm not about to take, and that is dictating to parents what they can and cannot tell their children. It's none of my business what some werido down the street is teaching their children, so long as it's not training them to physically harm anyone.

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

I could've eaten Alphabit soup and crapped out a better post!

I'm on record as being rather skeptical of homeschooling, mainly because I am very much in favor of re-vamping and rebuilding our public educational system. The very idea of homeschooling strikes me as perilously close to an unregulated picking-and-choosing of one's own facts.

Under my rule (), as long as they can pass the rigorous exams, I'd have to be okay with it. But, at a time of massive droput rates, a highly competitive workworld, and a general zeitgeist of rather anti-intellectualism these days, I think that the general movement towards "going it alone" is perhaps counterproductive.

Ultimately, if a child is unable to pass required tests due to bizarre, unregulated schooling, it would be irresponsible to allow that child out into the workforce. Methods are not as important to me as results, and my emphasis is on making sure we don't turn people loose who don't have some sort of baseline educational framework.

If you think you can teach Little Johhny, that's fine. I'd certainly prefer it be done according to measurable standards and lots of accountability. What's missing from many of the propsals I have heard is the accountability.

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There is no sig. There never was a sig. The sig is a lie.

I was homeschooled...


I don't think I resemble too closely any of that Jesus Camp nonsense.

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"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch

Not all home schooling is bad. It takes a lot of effort, time, and usually money and education to do it. But for every good home schooler, there are a lot of psycho home schoolers who learn Jesus Math and that evolution is false. The problem is that home schooling is often poorly regulated in the United States, depending where you live.

And when you are home schooled, you are not exposed to any of those pesky "contradictory" ideas if your parents don't want you to be. They can successfully bubble up their children in little fantasy worlds where they control the influx of information. While you cannot prevent parents from talking to their kids and teaching them nonsense, you can at least give them access to information that the parents don't want them to see if they go to public schools.

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I suspect that the net amount of "shelter" that is suffered under homeschooling and public schooling is the same.

For every parent not telling their kid about natural selection, there's a teacher not telling her kids about the Gulf of Tonkin.

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"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch

Then your assessment will be about as accurate as an assessment of American public schools based on South Park episodes will be.

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"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch