In Spain we do pay taxes (Inland revenue?...I'm not sure if this is correct) during the month of May and June every year. You know the tax that means that the more you earn, the more you pay.

We have the choice to send a bit of our taxes to the Spanish Church or to our Government under the concept of "other social purposes"

At first sight, it seems that non believers shouldn't have any problem to decide where to send that part of our taxes, but folks, I am a non believer and I've had to change my mind after I had a look at the Spanish Church figures. It is simply amazing.

Here you have some figures from 2005, regarding social services displayed by the Spanish Church daily in my country:

- 107 Hospitals, with more than 387.000 patients every year.

- 1.004 Social Centers: 128 clinic with 850.000 patients every year; 876 housing for older people or accommodation for the elderly, care homes for disabled people and terminal AIDS patients.

- 51.312 hospital beds, with clean sheets every day.

- 365 Prostitutes, inmates, and yonquis reeducation Centers (53.140 people)

- 937 orphan houses (10.835 abandoned kids)

- 305 Family consulting center, 619 day center and 315 fond of eating for very poor people. More than 57.000 old and disabled people are attended by Spanish Church, plus 1.500 AIDS patients. They also attended nearly 300.000 homeless and 114.000 inmigrants.

- The tuition of more than 2 million kids, 30% of the whole Spanish pupils.

- El 80 % of expenses in conservation of Historical and Artistic Patrimony, nearly 100.000 buildings, 280 museums, 130 cathedrals, 1.000 monasteries

Not included in this list, all those other services mainly oriented to believers, like matrimony, baptisms, religious assistance to inmates in 70 Spanish prisons or those who strictly depends on the believers will, like International Cooperation with more than 60 million Euros donated by Spanish Christians.

Some local economists has valuated in around 31.000 million Euros, the cost of these social services; an amount of money that should be paid by Spaniards taxpayers but the Spanish Church is doing instead.

When I imagine what would happen if the Church suddenly stop displaying these social services, I can only see public disorders, an increase in robs and lots of problems for the Government.

So at this point, after these figures, I wonder how much would be the increase of my taxes if the Spanish Church decides they are not displaying these social services anymore, because…..folks, what is out of any question is, that there is a very clear social services demand, -mainly from the poorest of our citizens- therefore there are many people who really need these services to be displayed, daily, therefore there must be someone ready to cover this enormous social task on the fly if required.

The problem in Spain is, that if the Church does decide to stop doing this amazing job, our Government is not ready to face it because none of them see it as one of its problems since the Catholic Kings in 1492. The whole Governments of Spain have intentionally forgotten about this duty. They've been always confidence that the Church was there, behind them, doing a job, that for sure was a Government obligation.

I'm afraid that my bits of taxes are going straight to the Spanish Church, even when I'm non believer, because I'm confidence they are much better prepared than the Government to successfully face this task, they have proved it.

Just a thought

Saludos

Well, you must understand that when most of us talk about the government and the endorsement of religion, we're referencing American politics. Of course, this is not a solely American forum by any means, so all discussion is welcome.

However, you have brought in a different scenario here. In Spain religion seems to be taken a lot more seriously - and is more genuine. You can see beautiful churches and all sorts of icons that illustrate Mary and Jesus - it's a different type of religiosity, a difference far beyond Catholic vs. Christian. The figures you showed seem to suggest that the church is doing its duty and I have no problem with Christians or Catholics who actually, you know, follow the commands of Jesus. But here in America, people seem a lot more focused on hating for Christ and teaching religion in science classrooms.

Ah, to be in Europe.

Magnvs wrote:
In Spain religion seems to be taken a lot more seriously

It is true that more than 80% of the spaniards recognize themselves as christians but even when I was aware about the Spanish Church social services stuff, I wasn't about the amount of money it cost.

Magnvs wrote:
But here in America, people seem a lot more focused on hating for Christ and teaching religion in science classrooms

What do you mean? There is a big problem here in Spain rightnow regarding religion lessons at school. The socialists Goverment we are suffering, want the religion out of public schools. It does not matter the 80% stuff
Does the American Church offer any sort of social services?

Saludos

two questions...one not related to this topic. you mean in spain you only pay taxes for two months? or did i just read that wrong?

second - yes, most churches here do offer services. in fact, in many disasters its church-based groups that can get in and start cleaning/fixing things up, bringing in food and donations

for some reason lately, a lot of church animosity on the boards, esp directed at the US. not sure why - while there are of course extremes on most sides of any debate (with the religious ones being very far right/conservative and fundamental) for some reason, the church and christians in general are all being lumped into that category, when its just not true. a few vocals have apparently caused a lot of damage in the US

if people realized just what else churches do, some of their animosity might be redirected to where its appropriate

Dc2ga wrote:
two questions...one not related to this topic. you mean in spain you only pay taxes for two months? or did i just read that wrong?

You read it OK. It is my fault. What I meant is that taxes in Spain must be payed between those two month.



Dc2ga wrote:
if people realized just what else churches do, some of their animosity might be redirected to where its appropriate

This is for sure

Saludos