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Religion and Politics Discuss how Religion has and does affect the world we live in.

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  #321 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
Let me grab a bible, from memory, when Heaven on Earth is created (revolations). They only have 14,400 spots from each church.
Yes I am familiar with it. I can never remember if it is stated for the first or second resurrection though. I have always viewed that number as the number of the elect who will spend the milennium with Jesus. then we have the whole judgement and lake of fire ordeal, finally topped off with universal salvation (with the last bit being a bit contraversial, but which makes perfect biblical sense to me).
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  #322 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 05:51 PM
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Yes I am familiar with it. I can never remember if it is stated for the first or second resurrection though. I have always viewed that number as the number of the elect who will spend the milennium with Jesus. then we have the whole judgement and lake of fire ordeal, finally topped off with universal salvation (with the last bit being a bit contraversial, but which makes perfect biblical sense to me).
Well, there is that time (the 1,000 years), but everyone else is just in waiting. After Satan comes back, he is then cast into the lake of fire "for ever and ever" and everyone writen in the book of life gets to go into the new heaven, and everyone not in the book or life, gets to go with Satan. But the new heaven is given a set size (1,600 miles by 1,600 miles), so it must have a set number of people that can live in it.
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  #323 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 07:46 PM
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Well, there is that time (the 1,000 years), but everyone else is just in waiting. After Satan comes back, he is then cast into the lake of fire "for ever and ever" and everyone writen in the book of life gets to go into the new heaven, and everyone not in the book or life, gets to go with Satan. But the new heaven is given a set size (1,600 miles by 1,600 miles), so it must have a set number of people that can live in it.
The "for ever and ever" is the english version. The word used in the early manuscripts literally means an "age." An age is a time period with a specific begining and a specific end.

The Bible also states:

1.) God's will shall stand and he will do all his pleasure
2.) God wills that all men will be saved
3.) Thus all people will be saved

I find the notion of Free Will to have relatively little to no Biblical standing. In fact the only Christian scripture in which the term "free will" applies is in a later apocrypha which was never considered for canonization.

Also:

1.) If you believe that Jesus is God and follow him then you will be saved
2.) No man can say that Jesus is God but through the Holy Spirit
3.) All people above the earth on the earth and below the earth will confess that Jesus is God.
4.) Thus all will be saved

There is also the Lake of Fire which combines the two elements which are used as symbols of purification throughout the entire Bible (fire and water) The Bible also says that a mans work may burn, but he himself will be saved through fire.

Finally, there is also a very popular Christian apocrypha which was on the early list for canonization which states that all men will eventually be saved and brought out of the lake of fire (Apocalypse of Peter). As well as a Gospel (I'm not sure which off the top of my head, the Gospel of Thomas perhaps?) in which Jesus states that all will eventually be saved, but he tells Thomas to keep it secret least everyone find out about it and sin under the impression that they will recieve impunity for it. (While all will come to God, the Bible also mentions a loss that the unbelievers shall suffer).

Last edited by Dylith : 06-10-2008 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 05:06 AM
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And what would that be?
you go back and look it up. I did the work already. A smart thing is when joining in a thread is to read it all. But then you can jabber on with the rest nobody will notice for another 32 pages.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:20 AM
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you go back and look it up. I did the work already. A smart thing is when joining in a thread is to read it all. But then you can jabber on with the rest nobody will notice for another 32 pages.
Perhaps you didn't notice but several threads were merged with this one. If you don't want to point out what you said and allow me to respond to it, then I really don't care enough to go back and look for it.

You were the one who brought attention to it.
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