Please with the 10 commandments already - Page 3 - Political Fever

Robert Ingersoll · #21 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylith

I think that many Christians simply don't stop to think about it. Jesus listed the new commandments for Christians in the NT. The ones that were left out were summed up with the whole love thy neighbor code.

The Ten Commandments are Jewish Commandments. Christians have their own.

"Good Christians, like soldiers & slaves, don't think." - Jerry Falwell

aaronssongs · #22 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ingersoll

Hey, Southern Man, there was this cool dude named James Madison who lived a long time ago in a faraway land. One day, he was chillin' with some of his bros & smoking some hemp that his homeboy G. Wash had grown down by the Potomac & he got to thinking about some John Locke $hit he read back in college @ William & Mary. Now, ol' Jimmy used to like to read Locke after he ate some of those farout mushrooms he found growing out in the cow pasture, and this one treatise about government stuck in his mind. So, sometime in the late 1780s, he set quill to parchment & came up with this thing called a Bill of Rights. They usually teach you about such stuff in school, but since I know most Southerners don't make it past the 3rd grade, you probably learned about it on "Schoolhouse Rock." At any rate, I'm sure you've at least heard of this Bill of Rights. Anyway, years after Jimmy wrote it down, some preacher-folks started going around asking their congress critters for some money to help them build things like crosses & stone monuments & other idolatrous items on public property. One day, some secular humanists saw fit to make ol' Jimmy their president, 'cause they realized that even though he was a stoner & kinda non-religious, he was a pretty smart dude. Besides, the job didn't pay that much & you had to live in a house in a swamp, so not many other fellas really wanted the job. Gettin' back to the story, these preacher fellas showed up in the district, asking their congress critters for money. These easily bought vermin were ready to give it to 'em too, but they forgot that ol' Jimmy had written the rule book for this here form of gubmint. So when they put a bill on his desk (remember "I'm just a bill/sittin' here on Capitol Hill?"----that was on "Schoolhouse Rock" too; you probably saw it), he vetoed it & sent it back with a note attached. It read:

"The appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, [is] contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment.'"

Now, since ol' Jimmy wrote that particular article, I'm kinda figgerin' he prolly knows how to interpret it.

I'll close with a bit from a 1995 issue of Mad magazine I have lyin' about:

"You're a group of Christian-based, conservative organizations with several million dollars to spend. Do you: feed the hungry? Clothe the poor? Don't be so naive! You blow the millions on a series of slickly-worded, logic bending ads espousing a widely discredited theory that one can be 'cured' of homosexuality through counseling & prayer."

Please. I'm so over "organized religion". And I, personally, "can talk", having "grown up" in the church. I attended an Episcopal boys choir school, in Chicago, for 3 years. It laid the foundation which enriched me in myriad ways, academically, and artistically.
However, I became disillusioned by the "under culture" of predatory priests (in the Episcopal diocese in Chicago), not suspecting of a wider culture present in the Catholic church, until years later.
While coming to grips with my own homosexuality, I realized that I had been conflicted by my religious upbringing vs. the intellectualization of the "rites of passage"...and as a result, became increasingly more spiritual and less religious, over the years.
After a personal crisis, I became attached to another church, in the late 90's, and sang in the choir. The pastor, a brilliant orator, and amazing vocalist, with his own "laundry list" of baggage, warred with his propensity to rail against homosexuality as the "supreme evil" and his ambivalence toward moderating his stance in lieu of his two sons, both ministers of music, and both "gay". I tolerated his "back and forth" for almost 4 years, until I could no longer be party to his message of "exclusion". I left the church and the choir, in 2000.
And I finally came to peace with balancing my sexuality and my spirituality, as I believe we each have a personal relationship, with the God of our understanding,if we so choose, exclusive of other human beings.
Then to witness the blurring of the lines of separation of church and state, in public arenas, in schools, in politics, only served to make me more disillusioned about religion and "more political".
Then to have charlatans and demagogues like Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson point fingers at "gays and lesbians" as the root cause of natural disasters like "Hurricane Katrina" and 9/11, just was the "camel's back" for me. Hypocrites, in their televangelism, profiting, "financially", and routinely succumbing to hedonism. Jim Bakker, Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Thomas Weeks...the list is long.
Coupled with the Catholic Church's sex scandals, in recent years, have proven that "organized religion" ( in America) is more of a sham and a vehicle for promoting agendas that impose on our freedoms and our rights under the Constitution, than a force of good in the world today. Certainly, it is intolerant of the beliefs of others, which, in my estimation, was totally opposite to the teachings of Christ, who said, "Come and follow me", not "if you don't come, I'll kill you".

Robert Ingersoll · #23 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 11:09 AM

Excellent post, Aaron. And hopefully no one is taking my posts the wrong way. While it's true that I disdain organized religion & think it a mind virus, my real problem (and really my ONLY problem) with organized religion is their propensity to foist their beliefs on others who would rather not be bothered. Spreading bits of Mosaic law around public classrooms & courthouses like Johnny Appleseed is but one example. If these delusional people would just keep their beliefs to themselves, I'd probably never utter a single word about religion. I actually enjoy reading & learning about the religions of the world, and am in particular interested in the histories of the world's religions. But that doesn't mean I want to be forced to participate via the legislative process, or worse, through back door processes such as using tax money to support a religion or taking up public space to spread the message of one religion (that is, endorse one religion with the back of the government) at the expense of others. You want the 10 commandments on the courthouse lawn? Fine, then I want a complete copy of Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible posted right next to it. When you're ready to concede that point, we can talk. Until then, please with the 10 commandments already.

Dylith · #24 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ingersoll

Exactly. And I'm only 14. I'm not expected to be mature yet.

But just the same, please with the 10 commandments already.

Ah, I guess I can cut you some slack then, I was a more militant atheist when I was younger as well.

Have you always been atheist or were you raised Christian / in a Christian home?

Lumara · #25 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 11:48 AM

I'm confused, Robert. In this thread you say you're only 14 but in another you have a daughter who had a stroke and who could benefit from stem cell research. That WAS you who said that, wasn't it?

Only one of these can be true unless you started a family VERY young- which I doubt.

aaronssongs · #26 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumara

I've wondered the same thing, Dylith. I guess that Christianity is filled with contradictions since the Bible is filled with them, too

Combine that with folks that either don't know what they are talking about, in light of scripture, or don't understand what they read.
Case in point, I lived 'briefly", with a "girlfriend"....a lesbian, who would alternate from screaming, ranting and raving lunatic of an evangelist to predator, "chasing skirts". She would , routinely, misquote scripture, in an effort to "belittle" others or distract from her own shortcomings....a clear case of "bible abuse", if I ever saw it.

dc2ga · #27 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 01:43 PM

you know, there appears to be a lot of misconception about Christians in the US. i mean, jerry f. is FAR RIGHT WING to many of us as well.

most christians are NOT like jerry, the televangelists, etc. most of us are 'normal' americans. we just happen to be christians. if you are going to bash, then bash properly, and do not use fringe lunatics to stereotype the rest. heck some of us even like to have a good party, drink and watch things on tv we shouldnt

these blanket statements and blanket derogatory comments are way out of line. what if we started posting some of the same things about agnostics? atheists? wiccans? etc?

bashing, insults, etc. can apply to not only racial comments, sexual orientation comments, but religious as well. believe it or not, there are also christians who are, gag LIBERALS!!!! go imagine that. no i guess with a lot of the closed minds around here you cant imagine that, now can you

here are many archaic things in christianity. and we dont all believe that the world was created in 4600 BC and that dinos and humans lived at the same time.

something else to ponder....about 33% of the WORLD population, not just US, are christians.

add up these numbers....and not necessarly just christians, but a huge portion of the WORLD population follows some type of religion. that includes islam

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.5 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

Major Religions Ranked by Size

edited to add:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Ingersoll

"Good Christians, like soldiers & slaves, don't think." - Jerry Falwell

specifically on this topic. believe it or not, there is a huge fight within christian churches over this. many (most, including myself) do not buy into fundamentalism, or that we cannot have our own mind and think what we want, irregardless of what some preacher may say. churches have split over this....dont think you ahve a monopoly on that idea....its been around a while

jerry f.'s an idiot. and does not speak for the rest of us

Robert Ingersoll · #28 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumara

I'm confused, Robert. In this thread you say you're only 14 but in another you have a daughter who had a stroke and who could benefit from stem cell research. That WAS you who said that, wasn't it?

Only one of these can be true unless you started a family VERY young- which I doubt.

Obviously, I'm not really 14. I just play that age on TV.

Robert Ingersoll · #29 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc2ga

you know, there appears to be a lot of misconception about Christians in the US. i mean, jerry f. is FAR RIGHT WING to many of us as well.

most christians are NOT like jerry, the televangelists, etc. most of us are 'normal' americans. we just happen to be christians. if you are going to bash, then bash properly, and do not use fringe lunatics to stereotype the rest. heck some of us even like to have a good party, drink and watch things on tv we shouldnt

these blanket statements and blanket derogatory comments are way out of line. what if we started posting some of the same things about agnostics? atheists? wiccans? etc?

bashing, insults, etc. can apply to not only racial comments, sexual orientation comments, but religious as well. believe it or not, there are also christians who are, gag LIBERALS!!!! go imagine that. no i guess with a lot of the closed minds around here you cant imagine that, now can you

here are many archaic things in christianity. and we dont all believe that the world was created in 4600 BC and that dinos and humans lived at the same time.

something else to ponder....about 33% of the WORLD population, not just US, are christians.

add up these numbers....and not necessarly just christians, but a huge portion of the WORLD population follows some type of religion. that includes islam

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.5 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

Major Religions Ranked by Size

edited to add:

specifically on this topic. believe it or not, there is a huge fight within christian churches over this. many (most, including myself) do not buy into fundamentalism, or that we cannot have our own mind and think what we want, irregardless of what some preacher may say. churches have split over this....dont think you ahve a monopoly on that idea....its been around a while

jerry f.'s an idiot. and does not speak for the rest of us

I've said it before, & apparently it bears repeating: when I attack religion, I'm really only attacking fundamentalism.

I said it in this thread: I have no problem with people believing whatever they want to believe, just don't go foisting it off on me through our secular government. Keep it in your home & place of worship. Focus on your own family & leave mine alone.

Finally, you'd be mistaken in calling me a thorough-going atheist. I'm actual a Deist and, from time to time, have been known to darken the door of the local Unitarian Universalist congregation. I realize that there are vast numbers of liberal & moderate theists, and for the most part, have no issue with those folks whatsover. I don't even have a problem with people who think everyone but them is going to hell----I just don't appreciate their rewriting of history (Christian nation? Puh-leeze), & worse, their attempts at hijacking our government & forcing us to spend tax money on them. If their god needs the support of government, it's probably not much of a god.

PS: Go back & reread my post #23.

aaronssongs · #30 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc2ga

you know, there appears to be a lot of misconception about Christians in the US. i mean, jerry f. is FAR RIGHT WING to many of us as well.

most christians are NOT like jerry, the televangelists, etc. most of us are 'normal' americans. we just happen to be christians. if you are going to bash, then bash properly, and do not use fringe lunatics to stereotype the rest. heck some of us even like to have a good party, drink and watch things on tv we shouldnt

these blanket statements and blanket derogatory comments are way out of line. what if we started posting some of the same things about agnostics? atheists? wiccans? etc?

bashing, insults, etc. can apply to not only racial comments, sexual orientation comments, but religious as well. believe it or not, there are also christians who are, gag LIBERALS!!!! go imagine that. no i guess with a lot of the closed minds around here you cant imagine that, now can you

here are many archaic things in christianity. and we dont all believe that the world was created in 4600 BC and that dinos and humans lived at the same time.

something else to ponder....about 33% of the WORLD population, not just US, are christians.

add up these numbers....and not necessarly just christians, but a huge portion of the WORLD population follows some type of religion. that includes islam

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.5 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

Major Religions Ranked by Size

edited to add:

specifically on this topic. believe it or not, there is a huge fight within christian churches over this. many (most, including myself) do not buy into fundamentalism, or that we cannot have our own mind and think what we want, irregardless of what some preacher may say. churches have split over this....dont think you ahve a monopoly on that idea....its been around a while

jerry f.'s an idiot. and does not speak for the rest of us

Jerry F "is" an idiot...so are a lot of Christian church leaders. So why won't the bulk of Christians speak up against being "hijacked" by these charlatans and snake oil salesmen? The silence is "deafening".

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