Originally Posted by Robert Ingersoll

Thank you. I admonished him to separate the poster from the post, but he's unwilling to do so. I admit my bias against organized religion, but that's not really the subject of this thread.

I'll be starting a whole bunch of anti-religion threads later. This one is just a "keep religion out of government" & "keep government out of religion" thread.

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I, too, was a much stronger atheist two years ago. And it was only two years ago! Now I'm an atheist-leaning agnostic.

I think the world would be a much better place if Christians--hell, if everyone--took certain things Jesus said to heart.

"Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Jesus thought that that was all there was to it. If more people actually believed that, we'd have a much better world.

Originally Posted by Chan

The issue here isn't that he is voicing his opinion it's that only certain opinions seem to be allowed here. It's okay to start threats with the clear intent of bashing Christians or conservatives or Americans but if someone starts a thread (not that I have any inclination to do so) bashing atheists or liberals or Europeans or blacks or homosexuals, that's just not allowed. I'm just getting sick and tired of the hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Ok, back on topic.

I submit that, as with most religions, the Ten Commandments retain only marginal relevancy with today's society, certainly when viewed as an enforceable system of law.

1. No Gods before me. This implies an outlawing or supression of other religion, in complete defiance of the First Amendment. This is clearly a specific endorsement of a specific religious p.o.v., no matter how you parse it. From a practical standpoint, while you can;'t actually control thought, you CAN destroy mosques, temples or anything else that doesn;t conform to this narrow command.

2. No idols. Just how relevant is this, today? This goes hand-in-hand with No. 1, and frankly, seems rather insecure, to me. Again, how would this translate into modern law? What do we define as idolatry, anyway? Would a big stone monumnent to the Commandments count? Vague.

3. Wrongful use of God's name/in vain. Big freakin' deal. Who among us hasn't? Again, this is thought policing, and possibly a free speech issue. Unenforceable, anyway.

4. Keeping the Sabbath holy. What, by law? How would this be enforced? Wouldn't this be rather counterproductive to the economy to simply shut the nation down? No football? Vague and unenforceable, again.

5. Honor thy mother and father. Okay...how? What's the criteria, here? I am getting a real pattern of unenforceability, here, which is just plain bad lawmaking. Halfway through, and we're 0 for 5.

6. Shalt not murder/kill. Finally, something relevant. Almost doesn't have to be said, but sure, society doesn't last too long, valuing murder. Plenty of laws on the books already, so, fine and dandy.

7. No adultery. Whoa. Talk about unenforceable. It's already pretty easy to get divorces these days. This one, while okay morally, just doesn't have the oomph required to make an actual law over it.

8. Shalt not steal. No-brainer, like #6. Lots already on the books, everyone seems to agree, as well.

9. False witness/lying. Other than perjury or libel/slander, this seems rather unenforceable, too. Besides, for the government to tell us not to lie is the very defintion of hypocrisy. Half-point.

10. Don't covet neighbor's house/wife. More thought policing and unenforceability. I can't think my neighbor's wife is hawt? And, wasn't this kind of covered in the no adultery part?

By my count, the Commandments are 2.5 out of 10 in terms of relevancy. Not a particularly robust set of rules. Interesting to note what was apparently of paramount importance 4,000 years ago, though, but really, if false idols and adultery were the biggest problems then, they got off lucky. Most of these Commandments seem to rely on people tattling on each other...a poor basis for society, in my opinion.

As a historical artifact, it's mildly interesting. However, to those groups dedicated to "returning" America to the 10 Commandments as the basis for law, it just doesn't really cut it in 2008. If it isn't the law of the land, it really has no business in any public space, which assumes universal appliciability.

P.S. Interesting that there are no Commandments prohibiting slavery, rape, incest, bestiality or cannibalism. I'll assume everybody's okay with that, then.

Originally Posted by Robert Ingersoll

1. ….That was joke. Surely you're not so thin-skinned.
2. …. Ever heard of "intent?" Obviously not. Maybe there's a bit of truth in #1 above.
3. … Mad Magazine is/was the height of American culture & refinement.

Originally Posted by dc2ga

yes this is off topic, but i would like to respond. there is a difference between discussion, criticism, simple low grade comments (ie., so and so is a moron) and hate speech and bashing.

its not really a politically correct thing, but bashing, racial insults, hate speech etc.

Originally Posted by Southern Man

It's cleary OK to insult white Southeners though...

Originally Posted by dc2ga

yeah, i have been noticing that lately, esp in another thread. while i am one of the supreme rulers, and stalin is not, contrary to what he posts, i havent edited anything yet.

however, the slams and stereotypes against the south, christianity, etc. are starting to wear thin. if things start to get out of hand, i will take action (take this as a notice to all posters please. else we will have to make 'southerners' a protected class )