I have never understood why so many Christians, who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, aka the Prince of Peace, are in favor of the war in Iraq or any other war. I just read this article at http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/tulk5.html which expresses my views, especially the part that I have highlighted with boldface type, and I wanted to share:

Churches and War

by Darren Tulk

So there I was on a Sunday morning. Peacefully sitting in church, mentally dissecting the Pastor's message and making no trouble for anyone. Then at 11am, he was passed a message and paused in his scriptural musings. We need to remember those who gave their lives for us, he said. To preserve our way of life, that we might be free.

I really lost my train of thought at this point. Now I was thinking of the standing armies of Governments and the number of people killed, maimed, and emotionally crippled by its wars.

Maybe I should take up this discussion with the pastor, but I hesitate, knowing that some in the church already think I have strange ideas. And I'm aware that churches routinely encourage adherents to support the state-run military, police forces and lines of authority. Churches want to be seen as good corporate citizens. "Approved" churches can set up arrangements for tax concessions from Governments. But should churches cosy up to the state? Might that not produce a conflict of interest?

In endorsing the military as a legitimate career choice, and joining the "celebrations" of Armistice Day, Churches and their leadership bow the knee to Leviathan and its standing armies. But the military serves to reinforce the legitimacy of the state. It is the military that is used to intrude upon national sovereignties, enforce interventionist foreign policies and create new enemies. These sustain the war machine’s purpose and fuel its voracious appetite for life.

For at its basest, war results in deaths. Soldiers are required to kill. Yet every bible at my home tells me not to kill. No exceptions. It does not say it's okay if you wear a uniform, carry a state-issued weapon or are just carrying out orders.

In our churches we fail to make this distinction. By our endorsement of military service, the church joins the veneration of those who have been killed in the state’s wars in the past. In so doing, we implicitly tell each other that it's okay to join up, go to new places, meet new people and kill them. Provided you have the sanction of your government, the church will bless your unholy pursuits.

I have a problem with this. My bible tells me I will be accountable for everything I do. It does not matter whether I did it wearing a uniform, or carrying a badge. With the possible exception of self-defence (which participation in most wars is certainly not), killing at the state's direction cannot be justified. This is especially applicable to those who claim Christian beliefs.

In recent years I have become painfully aware of these contradictions. How can the Gospel of Peace co-exist with state-legitimised killing and death? I used to think that Christians could "serve their countries" through joining the military. But having re-assessed the role of government in causing and prolonging wars, I can no longer support fellow believers who express a wish to wear a uniform.

Having held rank, many with whom I converse are very surprised (and sometimes unhappy) with my views. Many seem unable to contemplate the realistic alternatives to engaging in costly and casualty-ridden wars. The concepts of peaceful trade and mutual cooperation for increased prosperity seem unknowable and foreign. Shamefully, even our churches parrot the government line that Remembrance day is somehow noble.

Around this date, we are assailed by nauseating "documentaries" aimed at indoctrinating the ignorant. History books are written by the victors. Instead of shame and regret at the loss of life, we are encouraged to applaud "heroes," the brave souls such as those who killed tens of thousands of civilians by dropping atomic bombs on them.

We have a forthcoming national election already producing gale-force promises and propaganda. With the Remembrance day lies added, it does all get a bit much.

War is a measure of the health of the state, goes the old saying. So by any measure our states are in robust health, having managed to orchestrate wars past and present that have left tens of millions dead. War kills through direct combat, but also through sickness, starvation, "civilian casualties" and other evasive and misleading descriptors.

Movie makers and television scriptwriters also support a wrong view of war and the military. Historical truth is often twisted to suit the jingoistic xenophobia that passes for contemporary patriotism. Killing and death has become a form of entertainment best viewed on our big screens. We revel in it and sympathise with "our boys." Provided the story is told "right," audiences will clap and cheer the most appalling and dehumanising acts including espionage, betrayal, foreign interventionism, preemptive bombing, torture and death.

But hang on: all these acts take place in real life, not just at the movies.

Perhaps churches need to encourage Christians to repent. Supporting state-sponsored war machines that kill and maim our fellow creations should not be the imperative of believers. Only then can we begin to assess who the real enemies are.

November 15, 2007

Darren Tulk has worn a uniform in the past, but now chooses not to.

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Who Would Jesus Bomb? Nobody!

The Bible clearly states that: There will be wars and rumors of wars.

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I had 3 great uncles (all brothers) who served in World War II and they were all Christians.


Guess it made them sinners for having been in a war.:eek::rolleyes:

Typical religious faction differences.

The Catholic Church generally is anti-war (at least the last few centuries anyway) and they constitute a large majority of all Christians on the planet.

It is only the US protestant churches that have any kind of a noted passion for supporting war and even then, they are only a minority of US protestants.

So, you (and/or the author you are citing) are just cherry-picking one minority group of Christians and claiming that applies to all Christians - which it doesn't.

That's because people ignore the spiritual law "Thou shalt not kill;" not because killing is acceptable.

If they broke the Ten Commandments and killed others in that war, yes it does and they weren't true Christians. If they did administrative, medical or other non-combat work, they weren't sinners (although I don't care for the term sin).

I'm glad to hear that the warmongering Christians are a minority, since they seem to be the most vocal and/or get the most media attention.

BTW I knew about the Catholic Church's anti-war stance, which is one of the few things the Catholics and I agree on. :p

They were in combat...but probably also had non-combat work as well. One of them I know was an Army cook. And, yes without a doubt...I know they were true Christians.

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Matthew Carman has two brothers who have been in Iraq while in the service and have probably seen and been in combat...I really doubt that will keep them out of Heaven. In fact one of them will be re-deployed to Iraq in December.

God Bless You, Jeremy and Carl.

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Servicemen and servicewomen have a duty against the enemy in wars.

They have a duty, yes, but if thier duty if for an immoral purpose, say bye-bye to the Gates of Heaven and say hello to the pits of Hell.

There was wars and killing in the bible. Sometimes it can not be helped. I do not think you lose your christianity if you truly accepted the lord into your heart.

If you are killing for the purpose of protecting others and preventing evil, then it is justified, otherwise, prepare for a lot of bad karmas coming your way!

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Independent, sick of idiotic politicians


"Republicanism is a disease that is incurable, except for signing up to do thier dirty work and die doing it."

There are expections with thou shall not kill.