Who? For those of us who are not familiar with you it's hard to guess what position you are taking on the ID question.

Stein? Absolutely he has to be a moron for him to jump on board with those ID wackos. I'm surprised that they haven't already completely disbanded due to their embarrasment over the mess they made of their last challenge to the public school system in Dover.

I meant the guy writing the column, but it's perfectly applicable to Stein.

redwards- The IDers are persistent in their efforts to get it into science classrooms and if the movie has the impact that it appears it could have with Christians then do you think they could possibly succed?

Wouldn't some moderating influence step in at the last moment to stop it or would it be such a slow and insidious process that they will be able to succeed. I'm interested in knowing because the disasterous effect it would have on the US is hard to imagine in it's sheer magnitude.

They wouldn't really let it happen would they?

It would of course force huge changes in the system within a few short years because of the damage it would do to the country in so many ways.

Of course not. The concept is fundamentally unscientific. There's no way this is going to change how science works, all it's going to do is reignite the passions of morons in middle america who don't understand science but put their faith in religion.

This isn't going to do a damn thing to genuine science education. Maybe, MAYBE they get enough morons elected to change the science curricula of a few rural middle schools, but no one is going to have to sit through a talk about 'intelligent design' in any university which isn't run by religious fundamentalists and already teaching this crap.

At the end of the day, people who promote these ideas are ignored by genuine scientists because their ideas are BAD, and nothing is going to change that.

Thanks for the answer and I'll assume you are correct. But I keep wondering whether or not the religious in the US are large enough in numbers to force their idiocy upon the rest.

I've never been able to determine accurately just how many are young earthers but I have reasons to suspect that if the question is put to them in the proper manner we would find over half of them having to either put down their religious beliefs outright or they would have to relent and say they are young earthers. The question is so direct and to the point that they have no choice. That estimate presumedly being close to correct or even on the conservative side, I wonder if the majority wouldn't support the ID agenda and even force sensible politicians into having to make the obvious choice. Creation or evolution? I don't think a politician can hedge on that one without using some very, very 'creative' thinking. Creationism in science classrooms is the next step and definitely their agenda. Even if it didn't reach university level the damage would be done to the children before they even got there.

Having said that I should just say that one of the main reasons why the ID ideas are to be avoided by mainstream religion is because it leaves no room to maneuver in the least. They really don't want to go there and the irreducible complexity issue which soundly whacked them down in Dover is but one reason why not. If they have any sense at all, which I frankly wonder if they have or not, they will draw a very broad bright red line between religion and science. Mlurp for one doesn't understand that and neither do a lot of others. They think they have a winner here with Stein's movie while all along they are trudging down a path of no return. What happens when their backs are against the wall as they surely will be?

See post 4.

The bad thing is that this will be praised as witty and funny.

Guess what? It might even be funny. Doesn't change the fact it's retarded.

__________________
"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

It looks like the religious right on this forum are being cautious and avoiding this issue. A very sensible approach which indicates that they know the IDers are nothing but trouble for them.

I must say I don't blame them. The whole ID thing has been debunked so much so that it only exists in the pockets of Christian fundamentalism (and we have a few here in Australia, we even exported a fundie to the US, for which I apologise). ID is theology and not very good theology at that. Science it ain't and that's a given. Fundie propaganda is all it is.

I mean the Catholic Church sorted this out in Vatican II back in the 1960s but a lot of money and a lot of work and a lot of propagandising has gone to creating ID and spreading its ridiculous claims. It has no credibility except in the minds of its proponents and its uncritical fundie followers

But Evolution is responsible for the Holocaust!

I'd just like to point out that even if Evolution was responsible for the Holocaust, that wouldn't be any challenge to its validity.

__________________
"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.