Being Protestant Versus being Catholic - Page 2 - Political Fever

Magnvs · #11 (**permalink**) 12-14-2007, 11:24 PM

They always need an enemy. The Fundamentalists take no allies; they compromise nothing. They are 100% convinced that everything they think about every nitpicky detail is completely true. When scientific evidence is presented to them, they either ignore it outright, or pretend to be unbiased and "analyze" the evidence, only to proclaim that it's wrong because of some crap argument they made up on the spot to avoid saying what they're really thinking: "No matter what anyone says or what any test or analysis yields, the evidence CAN'T be right because it contradicts Scripture."

Of course, this is a vortex of thinking because, ultimately, there's no way out. Scripture is right because of an initial assumption. It is backed up by God, who is backed up by Scripture, the validity of which is now understood as correct. Here's the problem... if the religion's claims turn out to be wrong, how will we be able to prove that? It's a one-way trap: it cannot be disproven because it stands as proof of itself. Then, when all else turns against them and their argument is about to collapse, they can just pull the Get Out of Argument Free Card: "God's above logic."

Dustin · #12 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 02:08 AM

Protestants seem to base everything on the bible and I just find some false truths in this. They can interpret the bible as they choose and start a new branch of Christianity from it. How can we be sure that's really accurate?

White Rabbit · #13 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neorealist

Source: 1997 Britannica Book of the Year. © 1997 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.

Total Religious Population: 5,804,120,000

Christians (total): 1,955,229,000 (33.7%)

Roman Catholics: 981,465,000 (16.9%)
Protestants : 404,020,000 (7.0%)
Orthodox: 218,350,000 (3.8%)
Anglicans: 69,136,000 (1.2%)
Other Christians; 282,258,000 (4.9%)

Looks like Orthodox are outnumbered by Protestants WR.

Thanks for that clarification. Apparently RCC is only 50% of Christians - that's lower than I thought it was.

It is interesting that they list Anglican as separate. Anglican (UK) is the same as Epsicopalian in the USA. Apparenly they count Anglicans outside of the USA separately and Episcopalians in the USA as Protestants. That's a bit odd. Like I said above, Anglican/Episcopalian is like a hybrid between Catholicism and Protestantism (bit of a mixture of both).

Quote:

Originally Posted by neorealist

I am Greek Orthodox (Most of my family is either Russian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox) and I was raised in Catholic Schools. While the Eastern (Orthodox aka Eastern Catholic) and Western (Roman Catholic) churches are more similar to each other than either one is to a Protestant Church, I assure you.....there is a deep division b/t the two. Most of the contempt comes from my church towards the Catholic Church.

For example, the roman Catholic church will allow Orthodox members to participate in its sacraments, (communion, marriage, confession etc) however, if an orthodox member gets married or participates in a Roman Catholic sacrament he or she could potentially be restricted in participating in sacraments back in the Orthodox church. In fact, the person could technically be excommunicated from the Orthodox church. The Roman Catholic church states that it is acceptable for its members to participate in Orthodox sacraments; however, the Orthodox church does not allow outsiders to participate in our sacraments. A little conflicting huh.

There are some large differences b/t the two:
-Orthodox Priests are allowed to be married and have children....Catholics are not, which IMO feed the problem with its priests sexually assaulting children. Its not normal to deny a human the right to sex.

-Women are not allowed step on the altar in the Orthodox church. The altar is much more "closed" off to the people in general in the Orthodox church. Its typically has a curtain in front of it for parts of the liturgy.

" - The Orthodox do not accept the supremacy of the Pope, as the only successor of Peter, and this is the real issue for the split.
- The Orthodox do not have a central authority, no one even claims to be the successor of "Peter", with the immense authority given to him, and only to him and his successors!, by Jesus in Matt.16, Jn.21 and Acts.1-9.,
- If the Orthodox could accept the authority of the Pope, as the successor of Peter, all the other differences would be immediately eliminated."

http://www.religion-cults.com/Christ...x.htm#The_Pope

This site does a good job at pointing out the differences.

To sum things up, there is a DEEP difference in doctrine b/t the two churches. WR, while it may appear they are the same on doctrinal issues, they aren't. The pope makes all the difference.

Actually I disagree on the level of difference. THe supremacy of the pope is a relatively small distinction between the two. You have admitted that is the only substantive difference and I say that difference is a comparatively small one.

As I noted above, there is far more difference between Protestant and Catholicsm (or Orthodox) than there is between Catholic and Orthodox.

For example, the Protestants 'protest' against way more than just the supremacy of the pope. They object to the role of the priest the same way. That's a huge theological distinction. Protestants hold that the relationship between God and man is a direct one. Catholics (and Orthodox) hold that the priesthood is a necessary and integral 'bridge' between God and man. That kind of theological distinction cannot be mitigated or resolved.

White Rabbit · #14 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin

Protestants seem to base everything on the bible ...

That is the very definition of Protestant. Authority by scripture alone. Anything else is held to be invalid.

Catholics and Orthodox grant the authority of a priesthood in addition to scripture.

It is to be noted that it is official doctrinal policy of the RCC that the bible itself is to be understood as "allegorical". Many protestant sects declare that the bible is the "word of God - inviolate".

One very notable distinction between Protestants and Catholics appears to be the fact that the RCC has officially accepted evolutionary theory and big bang theory as compatible with RCC doctrine. This is very different than the protestant sects where many such sects insist that evolutionary theory and big bang theory are inherently blasphemous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin

They can interpret the bible as they choose and start a new branch of Christianity from it. How can we be sure that's really accurate?

Given the secular historical record regarding the origin of the bible, how can anyone be sure any version of it is accurate?

White Rabbit · #15 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnvs

They always need an enemy. The Fundamentalists take no allies; they compromise nothing.

Agreed. As long as you acccept that 'fundamentalists' can be found amongst the protestants as much as among Catholics as much as among secular atheists or any other designation. Fundamentalism is any kind of extremism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnvs

Then, when all else turns against them and their argument is about to collapse, they can just pull the Get Out of Argument Free Card: "God's above logic."

And well they should. That is the ultimate religious argument. Any other religious argument runs into trouble.

My advice to those who are religious - never try to rationalize your faith. Faith is inherently irrational and as such, is rationally or logically inviolate. As soon as one attempts to rationalize faith, one is walking down the road to atheism.

The lesson of Descartes and Luther ought to be instructive here. Both Descartes and Luther were supremely devout religious men. Both sought to improve the rationality of their faith. And both became 'demi-gods' in the pantheon of atheist secular intellectualism by doing so.

Indeed, Pope John Paul II specifically named Descartes as the 'father of atheism' - that's unfair to Descartes as he was unquestionably devout in his Christian faith - but it is certainly true.

For anyone curious, I am a hard-core secular atheist. Religion is meaningless to me, except as an object of study. However, it is my secular opinion that the institution of religion is a necessary and valuable component of civil society. Thus, while I may personally abjure the very idea of godhood, I also defend the principle of faith.

wvpeach · #16 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 08:51 AM

Good discussion guys.

I see many good responses on this thread. Including this one that has been eluded to by white rabbit , but I think I'll state it a little differently.

The Catholics believe the Pope can change doctrine being infallible and God's representative on earth.

For instance God said the sabbath was on the seventh day which is Saturday , but the Pope decided to make the Romans happy he would change it to Sunday which is really the day the pagans worshipped the SUN god.

The names of our calendar and most of our holidays come from the pagans and their calendar . ..... Ironic isn't that?

Its also ironic that the Protestants think they have it all right and are doing something original , when in fact they took everything they do from the Catholic church . Following the doctrines as set down by the Catholic church . They have learned some truth IMHO . Like for instance they do not require priests to be unmarried. But they still fundamentally stick to Catholic doctrine .

There are exceptions to every rule , but it is my opinion that neither has it pegged which is obvious in the fact they do not keep God's Sabbath.

But the word Protestant is used to cover almost every church outside the Catholic faith , so that cannot be said about all of them.

White Rabbit · #17 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

The names of our calendar and most of our holidays come from the pagans and their calendar . ..... Ironic isn't that?

Monday = Moon Day, this is Latin or Roman in origin.
Tuesday = Tu's Day, this is the Nordic/pagan God of War.
Wednesday = Woden's Day, this is the Nordic/pagan God-Father figure.
Thursday = Thor's Day, this is the Nordic/pagan God of the Sky
Friday = Frigga's Day, this is the Nordic/pagan Goddess - Woden's wife
(could also originate from Freya's Day, twin sister of Frey)
Saturday = Saturn's Day, this is Latin or Roman in origin, though Saturn is merely the Roman version of the Greek Chronos.
Sunday = Sun Day, this is Latin or Roman in origin, also linked to the Greeks.

This is apparently unique to the English language (a reflection of the fact that England was established by Germanic/Nordic pagan tribes of Danes and Saxons). Most other languages of Europe just use the Roman/Latin names.
Moon-day, Mars-day, Mercury-day, Juno/Jupiter-day, Venus-day, Saturn-day and Sun-day.

Sorry for the thread digression. I figured this stuff might be interesting to some people here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvpeach

Its also ironic that the Protestants think they have it all right and are doing something original , when in fact they took everything they do from the Catholic church . Following the doctrines as set down by the Catholic church . They have learned some truth IMHO . Like for instance they do not require priests to be unmarried. But they still fundamentally stick to Catholic doctrine .

Protestants don't have priests at all. That is a fundamental doctrinal principle of the protestants.

miriya · #18 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 09:03 AM

you just got to love pagans ^^

miriya · #19 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 09:04 AM

Odin is the over God in norse religion, not woden

White Rabbit · #20 (**permalink**) 12-15-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriya

Odin is the over God in norse religion, not woden

Depends upon which linguistic tradition one adheres to.

I'm familiar with the name rendered as Odin, Woden and Woten, to name just three.

I used the form of "Woden" there specifically as that is the linguistic origin of Wednesday in the English language.

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