Why does it have to be some epic oppression to be a problem? It is small and should be easy to fix, which it is. Let people decide if they want to or not and repeal the asinine law.

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May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

The terms are quite different. The difference between libertarian and individualist is like the difference between a catalyst and an enzyme.

__________________
May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

How doe the use, or lack thereof, violate the rights of another? It is a matter of personal choice. I 'choose' to wear a seatbelt. I 'choose' to wear a helmet. Since not using these devises causes no harm to another, it is none of the government's business.

I see this as a property rights issue. I find no authority in my state constitution given to the government to interfere with said activites on MY property. The government can restrict the use of such material on government owned property, but that is the extent unless authority is provided in the constitution (state), which it is not (in my state).

Yet allowing the government to pass legislation whereas they have no authority, whenever one agrees with the agenda, provides the precident to usurp their authority in these areas as well. You reap what you sow.

What would you suggest? Further degredation of the constitution? Or, punishment for the transgressors?

In this we will have to simply disagree. I not only admire our founding fathers, I agree with their philosophy.

And they have violated said authority time and time again. Nothing ever happens so now they have become bold enough to tell you that habeas corpus is dead and you feel vulnerable as a result. In the end, it will be the fault of the people for not demanding that their government OBEY THE LAW.

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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat

I dunno, that's just how massive threads like this get started. I tell people that while X is a problem, it's really not some massive, epic, freedom-destroying monster.

The response: Oh, yes it is! It's repression! It's the downfall of civilization!

You were there in that smoking ordinance thread. You know how it blew up. It quickly morphed from smoking bans to "The government is evil and crushing us all underfoot! Ahhhh!! Eeevvilllll!!!"

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The poor object to being governed badly, while the rich object to being governed at all. -- G. K. Chesterton

Well since I disagree with regulating lawful activities on private property, I tend to consider such ordinances tyranny. I did not debate on the smoking ordinance thread as I it is a local issue and we are from different states...and thus have different authorities enumerated to our respective governments.

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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat

Eh I am fine with massive threads. It does not need to be a "massive, epic, freedom-destroying monster" to get a thread, besides there are not all that many "massive, epic, freedom-destroying monster" anyway.

I do not say it is the downfall of civilization. It is one of many small problems. One of many small repressions.

__________________
May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

I suppose. But I am okay with that sort of "repression". If there's clearly a legitimate reason (as people certainly argue), then ehh.

Civilization is about give and take. Despite high-minded sayings about exchanging security for liberty and deserving neither, without ANY security, there is no liberty to begin with.

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The poor object to being governed badly, while the rich object to being governed at all. -- G. K. Chesterton

You misunderstand the concept of 'liberty.' Liberty is self ownership, not a slave from latin....libertas.

Our founding was based on this concept. We owned our bodies, and therefore the fruits of our labor. This has changed. We are now wage slaves to a corporate elite. It is time for the tree of liberty to be refreshed.

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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat

Mighty words, there. Any actual policy specifics?

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The poor object to being governed badly, while the rich object to being governed at all. -- G. K. Chesterton

There are many specifics. Too little time. If you wish for me to complete my 'plan' for the phasing out of SS....don't expect me to spend too much time going into so much minutia. I am only one man and these things require teamwork.

Now.....if you wish to 'join the team' let me know. I could use another 'well balanced' advisor unlike I would normally get out of our ranks. I am sometimes lampooned because I will have people from other 'parties' working on my campaigns. It pisses off the anarchists to no end.

Edited to ad......I see Roland's site referenced here quite a bit (constitution.org). I know Roland. I promise not to bring him here (there isn't enough coffee in South America to keep us awake). That said, he is consulted from time to time to insure constitutional compliance to keep my positions in line.

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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat