I have a question, for you guys. How did it come about that democrats are more liberal and republicans are conservative? Didn't it use to be the other way around?

Liberal and Conservative are political philosophies, while Democrat and Republican are political parties. The political philosophies don't change over time, what is liberal today is liberal tomorrow, but the parties are defined purely by the philosophies of their members, so as their members change, the party changes. I would love to get a study of this, get like 1000 people each year (500 that label themselves as Dem and 500 that label as Rep) and plot them on a political chart (with red ticks for the Rep and blue ticks for Dem) and make a new one each year. So over the years you can see the parties move.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Conservativism became a dominant politcal movement around the time of Ronald Reagan and has since moved forward.

The original roots of Conservativism lie in response to Lindon B. Johnson's adoption of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and spurred from there on.

The Conservative Economic movemement was bolstered under the idea of Reganomics and was supposed to be continued by George Bush Sr. Hence the reference to "Read my lips" so many times.

However Bush Sr. didn't exactly stick to his lips and strayed from Reganomics, thus adding fuel to the fires of Economic Liberalism.

Social liberalism has it's main roots in Johnson's Civil Rights Act as well, but did not completely unify until it was geared in opposition to the Conservative movement in the 80's and 90's.

I think that should give you some help on the question.

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"Democracy is being allowed to vote for the candidate you dislike the least." -Robert Byrne-

Yes, it's rather interesting. The democrats actually used to be the pro-slavery party of the south. The modern democrat was not formed until FDR took office, and the modern republican was not formed until the Reagan years. Before that, the party platforms were pretty vague for a while, and that seems to be happening again...

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I think your timing may be a little off reagan was in a large part responsible for the changes in the gop but the 70's saw some major changes on both sides of the isle. we seem to think the of the presedent like a quaterback giving them more credit then they are worth. some other names to remember when discussing both party's evolution are. berry goldwater, Robert byrd, among others. Remember that these changes were slow strom thurman stayed in office long after his party had strayed form his idiology. this is the guy who filibustered the civil rights act.
I guess my point is its way to much credit to give to one guy.

Actually, what you have to realize is that conservatism and liberalism are subject to switch with power. Democrats want things one way, Republicans want things another way, yes.
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But conservatism is really defined as viewing the current government system as essentially good.

Liberalism is viewing the current government system as generally flawed.
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Liberalism calls for reform, for a change in the ways

Conservatism says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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Republicans were previously liberals because they were not fond of the system.

Democrats were conservatives because they were fond of the system.
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Republicans currently ARE fond of the system, and don't want to change many of the ways.

Democrats do want to change a lot, because they ARE NOT fond of the system.
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So you see, that's why it switches, because the times change, and we still have the same goals as we did, it's just we're in a different situation.
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Hypothetically speaking, if the world were exactly how the liberals want it, the liberals would become the conservatives, and the conservatives would be the liberals.

Get it now?

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steve

Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!
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Now hang on there. Liberalism and Conservativism are specific beliefs on how government should work and how it should act in regards to the people on the nation and the industries of the nation.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Granted, Oregon Elephant, but according to Wikipedia (it really does know all, just kidding):::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism


"Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favor tradition and gradual change, where tradition refers to religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs. The term is derived from the Latin, com servare, to preserve; "to protect from loss or harm". Since different cultures have different established values, conservatives in different cultures have differing goals." --Demi-God, Wikipedia

And they continue to support my claims, that conservatism is supporting the standing customs, systems, traditions, etc.

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And, liberalism is shown as well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservativism, that liberalism focuses more on acquiring more freedoms, and reforming the current system.

Sounds pretty much like what I just said.
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Now I could go find "more reliable sources," but I think this will suffice, because they really can't make this up...

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steve

Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!
NOTE: If you agree with what I have said in this post, there's a new feature on Political Fever that allows you to express agreement. Look in the top right-hand corner of my post, and you should see a little silver scales button. Please, use that.However, sign it with your username so I know who sent it please...thanks all.

http://www.ozconservative.com/whatisconsshort.htm
http://www.ozconservative.com/consvslib.htm

Conservative is not at all defined as "viewing the current government system as essentially good" like you said earilier.

And no, your Demi-God doesn't continue to support what you amplied. In fact, the very next sentence is, "Some conservatives seek to preserve the status quo or to reform society slowly, while others seek to return to the values of an earlier time, the status quo ante."

That is dependent upon who is in power. If we have a conservative government than the conservatives will want to stay the same, if they fall out of power, than they want things to go back the way they were.

The rest of wiki goes to say things like "...a government does not have the right to run up large debts and then throw the burden on the taxpayer; the taxpayers' right not to be taxed oppressively takes precedence even over paying back debts a government may have imprudently undertaken." Surely if conservatism was as you say, than conservatives wouldn't protest if their current government was a big spender.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Alright, I stand corrected. So how would you define a conservative, specifically, and as close to the point as possible?

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steve

Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!
NOTE: If you agree with what I have said in this post, there's a new feature on Political Fever that allows you to express agreement. Look in the top right-hand corner of my post, and you should see a little silver scales button. Please, use that.However, sign it with your username so I know who sent it please...thanks all.