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Other Issues Discuss other areas of moral and worldly importance that other forum areas do not cover.

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Old 06-22-2008, 08:19 PM
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Default 2 Parties may Destroy this country

Alright, I have been absent lately and now that I have time I am back.

This is a serious topic, at a picnic with my family I realized that people are quite ignorant. I am a moderate, who quite honestly, votes more Democrat over Republican. However my family pointed out that Democrats are idiots and Republicans are the only ones able to save this country. Now if I recall correctly these are the same people who told me to respect others opinions, but now they only want us to believe in their views. So my question to you all is why are people so unwilling to listen to anything other than those who agree with themselves? Maybe you can shed some light why people won't see others viewpoints.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfffe View Post
Alright, I have been absent lately and now that I have time I am back.

This is a serious topic, at a picnic with my family I realized that people are quite ignorant. I am a moderate, who quite honestly, votes more Democrat over Republican. However my family pointed out that Democrats are idiots and Republicans are the only ones able to save this country. Now if I recall correctly these are the same people who told me to respect others opinions, but now they only want us to believe in their views. So my question to you all is why are people so unwilling to listen to anything other than those who agree with themselves? Maybe you can shed some light why people won't see others viewpoints.
So, what is this post really about? Is it about the stupidity of the American sheeple in their belief that there are only two political parties in the United States? Is it about Republicans believing that only they are right? Is it about the idiocy of all views being relative? Is it about the idiocy of being "tolerant" of other views (though the preachers of tolerance are quite intolerant of views that aren't politically correct)?
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"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

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Old 06-23-2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfffe View Post
Alright, I have been absent lately and now that I have time I am back.

This is a serious topic, at a picnic with my family I realized that people are quite ignorant. I am a moderate, who quite honestly, votes more Democrat over Republican. However my family pointed out that Democrats are idiots and Republicans are the only ones able to save this country. Now if I recall correctly these are the same people who told me to respect others opinions, but now they only want us to believe in their views. So my question to you all is why are people so unwilling to listen to anything other than those who agree with themselves? Maybe you can shed some light why people won't see others viewpoints.
Actually LISTENING to what someone else has to say means that I might have to really THINK about my own ideas and opinions and that I might even have to logically defend them from 'attack'. This is something MOST people are unwilling to do. I think there are two main reasons for this unwillingness. One is intellectual laziness. We simply don't want to put the necessary energy into thinking about what we 'believe'. We just want to take someone else's soundbite, repeat it and be done with it. The second is intellectual dishonesty. Many people know, deep down inside that what they say is total BS. That is, they would know it if they took the time to really think it out (see laziness). But they continue to cling to stupid dogma that's been drilled into their heads in spite of the facts right in front of them. Maybe 'dishonesty' isn't the best term, perhaps 'loyalty' to stupid people would be a better way to put it. The bottom line is that most people are unwilling to defend their own views for various reasons. This is why they don't want to listen to someone else's. And for the record, this isn't just an 'american' phenomenon. It happens all over the world.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mkfffe View Post
Alright, I have been absent lately and now that I have time I am back.

This is a serious topic, at a picnic with my family I realized that people are quite ignorant. I am a moderate, who quite honestly, votes more Democrat over Republican. However my family pointed out that Democrats are idiots and Republicans are the only ones able to save this country. Now if I recall correctly these are the same people who told me to respect others opinions, but now they only want us to believe in their views. So my question to you all is why are people so unwilling to listen to anything other than those who agree with themselves? Maybe you can shed some light why people won't see others viewpoints.
To simplify what Mono said, ignorance is bliss.

Basically, they don't want to think in depth about politics, why? I can only guess, probably they don't want to stress and worry over it, they have enough things going on in their lives and feel that they can just pass the buck, that is the way it is for my wife.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:23 PM
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There are certain things I agree with the Democrats on, other things I agree with the Republicans on.

Nether party can possibly represent people in full, and the platforms and philosophies morph over time. We all used to consider the GOP a better steward of fiscal responsibility, now NOBODY thinks that anymore. Etc.

Personally, I would like to see a few more parties representing a broader spectrum of opinions. Parliamentary, rather than "winner take all". That way, the 49% of people in a district that voted opposite the winner have at least somebody in to represent them.

As the saying goes, there's always more than two sides to the story. So, why only have two representations?
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:37 PM
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There are certain things I agree with the Democrats on, other things I agree with the Republicans on.

Nether party can possibly represent people in full, and the platforms and philosophies morph over time. We all used to consider the GOP a better steward of fiscal responsibility, now NOBODY thinks that anymore. Etc.

Personally, I would like to see a few more parties representing a broader spectrum of opinions. Parliamentary, rather than "winner take all". That way, the 49% of people in a district that voted opposite the winner have at least somebody in to represent them.

As the saying goes, there's always more than two sides to the story. So, why only have two representations?
In a way, we do have a parliamentary system. Parliamentary systems work by have a large number of parties and no one getting the majority (or even close), so like minded parties would join together to form a coilition, and so when that happens, you are left with two main parties (or two teams or parties) that fight on everything. In the US we have skipped the step where the two parties are actually made up of smaller parties and have cut the voice of the people out in the process.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
In a way, we do have a parliamentary system. Parliamentary systems work by have a large number of parties and no one getting the majority (or even close), so like minded parties would join together to form a coilition, and so when that happens, you are left with two main parties (or two teams or parties) that fight on everything. In the US we have skipped the step where the two parties are actually made up of smaller parties and have cut the voice of the people out in the process.
I was thinking more about the coalition aspect, which I would think would at least get some less mainstream ideas in. And, a more parliamentary system isn't "winner take all". We'd probably end up with 36% Democrats, 35% Republicans, 19% Greens, 9% Libertarians and 3% Socialists, or whatever.

It'd be more interesting, at least.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:10 PM
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I was thinking more about the coalition aspect, which I would think would at least get some less mainstream ideas in. And, a more parliamentary system isn't "winner take all". We'd probably end up with 36% Democrats, 35% Republicans, 19% Greens, 9% Libertarians and 3% Socialists, or whatever.

It'd be more interesting, at least.
True, but what happens in congress is the dems, greens, and socials will ally together (to make 56%) and the others allying together (to make 44%), right now that is what they are doing, but they are not just allying together, they are completely merged together. I would love to see it broken out of a merger and back down to allies.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:19 PM
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We need to have multiple parties, the more the better, options can't hurt anyone accept those that wish to steal your freedoms.

I can't remember who it was that said it, but to paraphrase, "in this country [the USA] we have 50 options for Miss America and 2 options for President of America."
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Condorman View Post
We need to have multiple parties, the more the better, options can't hurt anyone accept those that wish to steal your freedoms.

I can't remember who it was that said it, but to paraphrase, "in this country [the USA] we have 50 options for Miss America and 2 options for President of America."
One of the problems is that the media doesn't cover the other parties. Another problem is that the Democrats and Republicans automatically have ballot access but other parties have to fight to get ballot access every election.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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