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View Poll Results: Should fathers be able to get custody of their children more easily?
Yes, they should have an equal chance with the mother. 9 69.23%
Yes, but the mother should be given some preference. 3 23.08%
No, unless the mother's really bad. 1 7.69%
No, never, always give it to the mom. 0 0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2007, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathon435 View Post
Read Viv's post, this is the true reason why. I was merely pointing out how biologically women are chosen to be closer parents. If there is a clear difference in who is best parent then go with best parent, but in close situations, where both parents are capable and loving, go with the Mother.
I read Viv's post and I disagree with her analysis because it puts an importance on some sort of intangible assumption that women are more important to children and vice-versa. This is her 'feeling' with little fact to back it up.

1) Fact. Feelings/Emotion/Attachment does not equate quality parenting.

2) The US Constitution states that All are created equal.

3) Even when you claim that in cases where the parents are equal, the law should come down on the side of the mother, you are violating this concept of equality. If both parents are equally good parents, they should have joint custody with EQUAL treatment. When you run the analysis and see that both parents are equally great parents, yet you fall on the side of the woman in these equal cases, you continue the incorrect assumption that men are not as good as women.

How many high profile cases do we have of the father murdering his children over the past 5-10 years? Compare that with the number of high profile cases of the mother murdering her children...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2007, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman15 View Post
At a purely biological level, men and women can each serve as each other's equals in the parenting realm, no doubts there.


HOWEVER, we don't exist on a purely biological level do we? Culturally, women are generally raised to be more caring, more nuturing, and more understanding, while men are conditioned to be more stoic, more aggressive in situations, and more uncompromising. Given our culture, women should recieve a general preference in terms of primary custody for younger, developing children (this obviously does not apply to drug addicts, workaholics, or other similarly unfit mothers). In dealing with teenagers, joint custody should always be considered first and foremost, followed by an evaluation of which parent can concievably provide for the child in such a way as to prepare them to enter college and/or the real world.
Way to be sexist. Provide me one recent, reputable study that says this.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2007, 02:56 PM
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I can tell you everything you'll ever need to know about this topic, including how to sue the judge when he refuses to render a decision.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debateman View Post
I read Viv's post and I disagree with her analysis because it puts an importance on some sort of intangible assumption that women are more important to children and vice-versa. This is her 'feeling' with little fact to back it up.

1) Fact. Feelings/Emotion/Attachment does not equate quality parenting.

2) The US Constitution states that All are created equal.

3) Even when you claim that in cases where the parents are equal, the law should come down on the side of the mother, you are violating this concept of equality. If both parents are equally good parents, they should have joint custody with EQUAL treatment. When you run the analysis and see that both parents are equally great parents, yet you fall on the side of the woman in these equal cases, you continue the incorrect assumption that men are not as good as women.

How many high profile cases do we have of the father murdering his children over the past 5-10 years? Compare that with the number of high profile cases of the mother murdering her children...
I'm conscious of not wanting to argue for Viv, but I would imagine that her evidence is gained through experience. I don't live under the US constitution, thankfully, but I agree that all are equal. However, I do believe that it is more important for a child to have its Mother than Father and more important to the Mother to have the child. If you want to continue saying, but all are equal, then you may but I want to find the best solution for everyone involved.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathon435 View Post
I'm conscious of not wanting to argue for Viv, but I would imagine that her evidence is gained through experience. I don't live under the US constitution, thankfully, but I agree that all are equal. However, I do believe that it is more important for a child to have its Mother than Father and more important to the Mother to have the child. If you want to continue saying, but all are equal, then you may but I want to find the best solution for everyone involved.
The best solution for the child is all that matters and we have zero evidence to prove that a woman is better fitted than a man. We have general statements and assumptions that have been thrown out is all. A woman should not have 'more rights' to a child than a man simply because she is a woman. The better parent should have the rights to the child and if both parents are equally capable, then custody should be joint and equal. I've yet to see a compelling argument against this analysis.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:40 PM
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In Texas you have a pretty good shot at custody, but it costs a lot of money and the court system is slow. You have to be able to make the mother look pretty bad in a court room. If her lawyer has any political affiliation with the judge then it gets really expensive.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:27 PM
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Here’s my take on this as it strikes close to home. While going through my divorce I was struck by the amount of bias the court system has against the father, from the attorneys straight up to the judges. With out going into details, my ex wife was/is not a suitable person to raise children. Despite the obvious, I had to fight tooth and nail to gain custody of my children. Even with evidence to the contrary, she was very close to winning custody. That would have been a grave mistake on the part of the Family Courts.
I prevailed and won custody but it was touch and go for a while.
Fact is the father has to work twice as hard to win a custody case.
I have had custody of my children for almost 8 years now (2 girls, 12 and 16).
I would challenge anyone who claims that a male can’t be as nurturing and caring as a female. I know of quite a few fathers who have custody of their children and the children are just as well adjusted as those raised by a mother.
When faced with the prospect of raising one’s children on their own, a PARENT, be they male or female will step up to the challenge. The MYTH that a male is less nurturing is just that…a myth.
So, my answer to the question is, Yes, a father should have every right to win custody of their children and gender should play no part in the decision.
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debateman View Post
The best solution for the child is all that matters and we have zero evidence to prove that a woman is better fitted than a man. We have general statements and assumptions that have been thrown out is all. A woman should not have 'more rights' to a child than a man simply because she is a woman. The better parent should have the rights to the child and if both parents are equally capable, then custody should be joint and equal. I've yet to see a compelling argument against this analysis.
In many cases it is not feasible to have equal custody. To be moved around week to week is too disruptive for a child and it is not in anyone's interests. Obviously I want both parents to play an equal part in raising the child but this can not always work. The only peice of scientific evidence I can offer you is that women develop a bond with their child during pregnancy that makes them more maternal. This is obviously not true in all cases, post-natal depression for example, but it is true in most.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2007, 05:55 PM
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A bond with the child? I disagree, a sense of greater sacrifice? Yes. Does that equate to having more of a right to custody? I don’t think so.
Given the right circumstance, a father can achieve a “bonding” equal to or greater than that of the mother. Bonding is a misnomer or is being used too loosely. It’s hard to describe, but there’s a connection between a parent and child. It extends beyond bonding. I don’t believe one can just “bond” with their child, one has to feel the genetic connection, it can’t be made to happen, it just is.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2007, 06:17 PM
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Graybeard,
Congratulations on winning. Thank you for being an example for other men to follow.
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