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Other Issues Discuss other areas of moral and worldly importance that other forum areas do not cover.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2008, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hugo Chavez View Post
This is a follow on from another thread that was going off topic. I personally find such a belief deplorable and revolting. No race is inferior, there are accomplished people from all races.

But is there anyone who out there who actually agrees with this comment
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Originally Posted by gman
I have simply asked the question concerning why certain races can't or won't advance. Convince me that they are capable of advancement. Good luck.
I completely disagree with it. And also, IMO, peoples who do not advance are obstructed by those who have and wish to retain the position of advantage.
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Old 02-09-2008, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Hugo Chavez View Post
This is a follow on from another thread that was going off topic. I personally find such a belief deplorable and revolting. No race is inferior, there are accomplished people from all races.

But is there anyone who out there who actually agrees with this comment
As man is both capable of extraordinary good and horrific evil, and accomplishments which defy belief, as well as those that fall short and bring about tremendous disappointment, all races fit within this model.

I would pose the question to Caucasians...are they incapable of power-sharing? Why must they dominate financially, politically, and in positions of power and authority?
Why does the Republican Party offer up (as someone mentioned earlier) "middle aged to elderly "white men", as the only viable candidates for the presidency, in 2008. You mean to say, there are no capable women, persons of color, that the party has faith in, yet they expect their constituency to vote, blindly, for them.

Other than that, I don't understand what the poser of the question is trying to say...all races have excelled, and have achievements they can be proud of....what I think he was trying to say is, why do persons of color, protest their mistreatment and marginalization? Why can't they just be content with the status quo?
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:02 AM
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What I would like to know, as it relates to the U.S., other people's opinion why black people can't get their act together as a people. Is it a racial thing, or is it a nationalistic thing? The Italians, Cubans, Japanese, Koreans all have an identity. But "Black" people are a mix of many forcibly homogenized nationalities. Could that be why we haven't been able to coalesce as many other Peoples have done when they arrived here and create a successful niche for ourselves?
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:17 AM
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Why does the Republican Party offer up (as someone mentioned earlier) "middle aged to elderly "white men", as the only viable candidates for the presidency, in 2008. You mean to say, there are no capable women, persons of color, that the party has faith in, yet they expect their constituency to vote, blindly, for them.
Let's be honest. Until this year, the Democratic party has never (seriously) run anybody except middleaged white men for president either. I know Jesse tried to get the nod - but he was bumped out early - and Geraldine gave it a shot - but got shot down.

Neither party has a terrific track record in that regard. The most powerful women and people of color in America have been appointed - not voted in.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
Let's be honest. Until this year, the Democratic party has never (seriously) run anybody except middleaged white men for president either. I know Jesse tried to get the nod - but he was bumped out early - and Geraldine gave it a shot - but got shot down.

Neither party has a terrific track record in that regard. The most powerful women and people of color in America have been appointed - not voted in.
Plus in the past you used to need some pedigree to be president. Some type of history of success. That seems to be changing though.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by FXASHUN View Post
What I would like to know, as it relates to the U.S., other people's opinion why black people can't get their act together as a people. Is it a racial thing, or is it a nationalistic thing? The Italians, Cubans, Japanese, Koreans all have an identity. But "Black" people are a mix of many forcibly homogenized nationalities. Could that be why we haven't been able to coalesce as many other Peoples have done when they arrived here and create a successful niche for ourselves?
You want to know what the reason is? It's that we were "done such a number on" during slavery, that has vestiges and repercussions to this very day.
How do you think sayings such as "white makes right", and the "brown paper bag test", occurred?
Mulattoes were "favored" over dark-skinned blacks, and wound up with cushy responsibilities and privileges that were not afforded the dark-skinned blacks who worked the fields. Naturally, resentment and hostility developed...and a divide occurred between the "haves" and the "have-nots", light-skinned blacks vs. dark-skinned blacks, educated vs, the non-educated, the connected vs. the non-connected. "Black on black crime" is a reflection of this phenomenon.
Black Republicans, those sympathetic to the white power structure (usually those with money), and those who see opportunity and benefits from supporting the status quo, are seen by many in the black community as traitors and betrayers of our people...which is a direct link to those Africans who traded people for goods or power during the height of the slave trade....perhaps you're familiar with the phrase, ".....sold down the river", an allude to the fact that many families were broken up, as mothers, fathers, and offspring were sold to neighboring plantations, and even out of state, making connection to family virtually impossible.
Can you imagine what that must have done to the psyche of slaves? To be torn away from your family, never to see them again.
That's why were all messed up...that is why the "crabs in a barrel" syndrome is "alive and well". It's been our Holocaust, undeniable, and horrific...but we are enduring, and slowly healing.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
You want to know what the reason is? It's that we were "done such a number on" during slavery, that has vestiges and repercussions to this very day.
How do you think sayings such as "white makes right", and the "brown paper bag test", occurred?
Mulattoes were "favored" over dark-skinned blacks, and wound up with cushy responsibilities and privileges that were not afforded the dark-skinned blacks who worked the fields. Naturally, resentment and hostility developed...and a divide occurred between the "haves" and the "have-nots", light-skinned blacks vs. dark-skinned blacks, educated vs, the non-educated, the connected vs. the non-connected. "Black on black crime" is a reflection of this phenomenon.
Black Republicans, those sympathetic to the white power structure (usually those with money), and those who see opportunity and benefits from supporting the status quo, are seen by many in the black community as traitors and betrayers of our people...which is a direct link to those Africans who traded people for goods or power during the height of the slave trade....perhaps you're familiar with the phrase, ".....sold down the river", an allude to the fact that many families were broken up, as mothers, fathers, and offspring were sold to neighboring plantations, and even out of state, making connection to family virtually impossible.
Can you imagine what that must have done to the psyche of slaves? To be torn away from your family, never to see them again.
That's why were all messed up...that is why the "crabs in a barrel" syndrome is "alive and well". It's been our Holocaust, undeniable, and horrific...but we are enduring, and slowly healing.
For a change then we agree on something. But IMHO, by now we should have seized on some advantage that we have and come together around it. If you are a believer of statistics, we rank high in abortion, many diseases, and crime, yet we are less than 20% of the general population.
I can understand slavery having a hold on us, but there have been other peoples that have been oppressed and have risen up. American Black People seem to be our own worse enemy.
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Old 02-09-2008, 01:43 PM
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For a change then we agree on something. But IMHO, by now we should have seized on some advantage that we have and come together around it. If you are a believer of statistics, we rank high in abortion, many diseases, and crime, yet we are less than 20% of the general population.
I can understand slavery having a hold on us, but there have been other peoples that have been oppressed and have risen up. American Black People seem to be our own worse enemy.
Nope. I'm not buying that. You see, "whites" are still capitalizing on our divide as "black people". And you grossly underestimate the far reaches slavery and post slavery has had on the psyche of black people.
Do you really think "whites", as a whole, care about "black on black crime"?
Do you really think that they care that our education is poor? That we don't have a "living wage"...that we don't have access to adequate healthcare? Or the same opportunities that they are blessed with....
It's not as simple as "working for what you get"...I know a lot of hard working black people...my mother was one. I've been one.
I know what is portrayed on the news is stereotypical...Ray Ray and June Bug, sitting on a stoop, smoking weed, and doing nothing. Or Shaniqua, with 3 or 4 kids, all different baby daddies, wondering when her welfare check is coming in....People that is a stereotype they want you to believe about black people...it ain't necessarily so. There are good and bad in all...and as far as the criminal justice system...if a typical white kid gets 'caught up", he is more likely to have a family with money and representation than a black kid is.
A white kid caught with powdered cocaine, usually would get probation or a slap on the wrist, while a black kid caught with considerably less substance, albeit in rock form, would get 3 - 25 years. Is that supposed to be justice, and equal treatment under the law?
No....level the damn playing field, make everything equal, then let's deal with the problems and look for solutions.
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:36 PM
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Nope. I'm not buying that. You see, "whites" are still capitalizing on our divide as "black people". And you grossly underestimate the far reaches slavery and post slavery has had on the psyche of black people.
Do you really think "whites", as a whole, care about "black on black crime"?
Do you really think that they care that our education is poor? That we don't have a "living wage"...that we don't have access to adequate healthcare? Or the same opportunities that they are blessed with....
It's not as simple as "working for what you get"...I know a lot of hard working black people...my mother was one. I've been one.
I know what is portrayed on the news is stereotypical...Ray Ray and June Bug, sitting on a stoop, smoking weed, and doing nothing. Or Shaniqua, with 3 or 4 kids, all different baby daddies, wondering when her welfare check is coming in....People that is a stereotype they want you to believe about black people...it ain't necessarily so. There are good and bad in all...and as far as the criminal justice system...if a typical white kid gets 'caught up", he is more likely to have a family with money and representation than a black kid is.
A white kid caught with powdered cocaine, usually would get probation or a slap on the wrist, while a black kid caught with considerably less substance, albeit in rock form, would get 3 - 25 years. Is that supposed to be justice, and equal treatment under the law?
No....level the damn playing field, make everything equal, then let's deal with the problems and look for solutions.
I think Black people biggest problem is themselves. We prey on each other more than any other American sub-culture. Our men are preying on our women. And we kill each other like no other. And just think about it, one black man killing another is 2 men/fathers/productive members of our society gone. That leaves it up to the single women to raise more men who probably won't have a strong male figure. We lead in single parent households AND abortion AND our women are being infected with AIDS WAAYY out of proportion.

I don't care is whites care about black on black rime or any other aspect of "black" life. It is up to US to get us out of the abyss not them. There are enough of us to drive our own local economies like some other ethnicities do. But we can't even get that going on a widespread basis. Everyone isn't gonna get rich, but then again all "White" people aren't rich either. Why are we waiting for help from or comparing ourselves to "white" people. We need to form our own culture like immigrants do.

Another problem is our entertainment industry. Our music is self defeating. Every song is about cheating, loss, getting sex, our objectifying women. Children are effected by this. And our young people's behavior is indicative of this problem.

As for the drugs...The key to that is...just don't do or sell drugs. It's a dead end on both ends of the situation.

I think the field in many instances is level. We just aren't playing the game correctly.
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:53 PM
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I think Black people biggest problem is themselves. We prey on each other more than any other American sub-culture. Our men are preying on our women. And we kill each other like no other. And just think about it, one black man killing another is 2 men/fathers/productive members of our society gone. That leaves it up to the single women to raise more men who probably won't have a strong male figure. We lead in single parent households AND abortion AND our women are being infected with AIDS WAAYY out of proportion.

Ultimately, that is the truth. Everyone is responsible for themselves. You cannot blame anyone for your failures, neither should you downplay your successes. But it is not "black or white" (no pun intended), nor "cut and dry".
Slavery is the root cause of our problems....we have to understand, dialogue, forgive and compartmentalize, not only between ourselves, but with "whites", as well. However both sides have to be open to the process, in other words, "willing partners".
I was speaking with my partner, who is European by birth, and he said, America is the one place where stereotyping is oftentimes based on reality.
While it is wrong to stereotype, sometimes it is a reflection of real situations and occurrences.



I don't care is whites care about black on black rime or any other aspect of "black" life. It is up to US to get us out of the abyss not them. There are enough of us to drive our own local economies like some other ethnicities do. But we can't even get that going on a widespread basis. Everyone isn't gonna get rich, but then again all "White" people aren't rich either. Why are we waiting for help from or comparing ourselves to "white" people. We need to form our own culture like immigrants do.


Again you are forgetting what slavery did to us as a people. There is no trust. The "crabs in a barrel" syndrome is real and a part of daily life. On that basis alone, how do you propose that we "get our act together"? To be of one purpose, you have to feel that there is some dividend for you at the end...for some people, survival is a real, day-to-day situation, and you can't really be thinking about kum-ba-yah, when you are hungry or on the street. Point.
Churches help to a degree...private citizens help to a degree. But except for some families, and award shows, black thought is something ethereal, and not meaningful to many.

Another problem is our entertainment industry. Our music is self defeating. Every song is about cheating, loss, getting sex, our objectifying women. Children are effected by this. And our young people's behavior is indicative of this problem.


One reason why I'm not a fan of Hip Hop, or Rap.....but let's talk about Jazz and Blues, and Gospel. Again, if parents were being parents, then we wouldn't have all this crap.

As for the drugs...The key to that is...just don't do or sell drugs. It's a dead end on both ends of the situation.

Of course...but just like anything else...drugs, like alcohol, like food, like church, like gambling, like sex...like a lot of things, is a "coping mechanism", albeit a non-productive and damaging one.
It's not as simple as saying no...there are life experiences which will lead you to drugs, and to other addiction and addictive behaviors.
It took me years to come to the conclusion...one just doesn't do drugs.
You never know what people go through or are going through. Don't be simplistic or naive.





I think the field in many instances is level. We just aren't playing the game correctly.
And I vehemently disagree. You can't play the game when the rules constantly change.
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