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Libertarians: Trying to get people to
mind their own business since 1971.
The Freedom Files

That article does make some sense, but I remain unconvinced about the idea that massive armament is the way to go.

I think the more fundamental questions of why this sort of Columbine thing just didn't happen when I was a schoolkid is more pertinent. One might argue that our culture has developmed a too-blase insouciance about the ubiquity of guns and that arming the schools and malls is gasoline for the fire. Familiarity breeding contempt?

I also think that we make the mistake in projecting that notable events like these are somehow commonplace or represent a daily "clear and present" danger.....just like we completely overreacted after 9/11. If Columbines or 9/11 happened weekly, that would be one thing....

In much the same way I'd never counsel allowing a ten year old to have access to nitroglycerin or to drive a wheat thresher, I am skeptical of the wisdom of allowing guns in schools. This implies a HUGE amount of trust which I simply do not have, and I am wary of the "cure" being potentially worse than the disease.

I can't argue that you're totally wrong, but I think this might be a dangerous and expensive solution in search of a problem.

Edit: a thought occurs to me that having kids trapped in classrooms behind steel mesh over windows and having no way to escape is a bad idea. My first instinct is to enable the kids/teachers to get OUT of the school, leaving nothing to shoot, rather than a Wild West scenario.

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"Oh, bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

There has been a significant change in doctrine. It used to be the case that the idea as "cordon and contain" until tactical units arrived. That's because the first responders to an incident would be under-resourced compared to the active shooter. That was tossed because of the images in the Columbine shootings. The AS intervention doctrine decreed that when sufficient personnel were available there should be an entry and engagement with the AS. I haven't read of this third iteration but it's interesting.

As for gun-free zones. The points made by Skerlnik are valid. It's not just schools or universities that attract these nutters, it's any public gathering, remember the Omaha shopping mall shooting. I don't know what the solution is but each situation - physical situation - needs to be examined and preventive measures designed and put in place. That won't completely eliminate the risk of course, only the disappearance of firearms from a society will do that, but that isn't going to happen.

Another gun-free zone.

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Libertarians: Trying to get people to
mind their own business since 1971.
The Freedom Files

Thanks for that, diur.

I guess it just shows the differences in thinking, and what people's first instincts in a crisis are, not that there's actually any sort of "crisis", to begin with.

Installing breakaway hinges on windows, etc. would be pennies on the dollar cheaper than having official School Firearms and the training/certifications needed for proper accountability.

Insofar as malls, I think the chances are greater of a zombie attack.

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"Oh, bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

You see all that is needed it to get rid of that stupid rule, which is nothing on the dollar. Proper accountability is already there by having laws about umm... not shooting people, unless of course they are trying to kill everyone. No training. No certificates.

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May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

You make a point, these things don't happen often. Neither do flat tires, but I still carry a tire iron.

WHEN these shootings occur, even given somebody on campus with a handgun, the odds of stopping them before massive loss of life occurs are somewhere between slim and none. However in a situation like that, would you rather have a weapon, or not have a weapon?

I have a concealed weapons license. I'm ex-military, come from a cop family, and shoot better with my pistols than any other firearm in my house. I don't carry my weapon regularly, maybe once or twice a year when I'm headed into Wilmington, but otherwise they sit at home. Just the same, people like myself with these licenses have enough interest to become proficient in the use of firearms, what makes you think we'd hit an innocent person in an active shooter situation? If you're concerned about a child taking the weapon from my holster, remember that we're talking about CONCEALED weapons, ie, out of sight. Cops carry sidearms openly and it is extremely rare that their weapons are taken away. Given that a school teacher or parent doesn't usually deal with criminals like a cop does, I imagine the percentage for seized pistols in a school or college would be even smaller than that.

Thus, the danger of an accidental shooting in a school by a concerned citizen, trained in the use of firearms, is at MOST equal to the danger of a rogue gunman storming the cafeteria with a shotgun. Since accidental shootings generally take one life versus the 30+ dead at VTech, and if we go with the most generous odds, we see that there really isn't a downside to allowing concealed carry on campuses or schoolyards.

.000001% chance of one death
.000001% chance of ten deaths

You gotta think on this one man. I like you, but in terms of practicality you've got it way wrong.

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"Bring me that horizon".

So, you don't agree that we're perhaps projected a freak, rare occurrence into an expensive solution? Fair enough, I guess.

Well, I've given it about as much thought as it truly deserves, that is, about as much as preparation for a death ray deflector shield.

It occurs to me that this is more about fearmongering and a way to open up laws on guns than about child safety. After all, school buses don't even have seat belts, you know?

I think arming the schools is the wrong way to go, introducing everyday, certain danger and potential for mishap in place of that 000001% chance of another Columbine and all the factors coming together to handle it. I'd be far more wary of teachers losing it, and having access to school-sanctioned guns. I'd rather focus on getting the kids out quickly, leaving no targets.

BUT, the age-old circular arguments over guns bores me, and I've said my piece.

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"Oh, bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

I think concealed carry movements take the shootings too far, just like the gun-control crowd. Both groups use extremely rare human tragedy to suit their agenda despite such occurences as being extremely rare.


You're more afraid of a teacher losing it why exactly? Now you're succuming to the same fear that you just finished critiquing. Granted, a teacher with a concealed handgun could potentially shoot dead his entire class and then off himself. He could also stop a school shooting, try to stop a shooting and get killed by the gunman or the cops, or leave his gun holstered and cower in the corner. These are all possible scenarios that are incredibly unlikely to occur in the first place, so why base policy on a rarity? Fact is, a shooting can occur anywhere, anytime and while it will probably NEVER happen, a good person with a gun is far more likely to stop a bad guy than a good guy with his hands up.

I'm not suggesting the schools and colleges issue weapons, nor am I suggesting that evacuation plans shouldn't be the primary option. I am simply suggesting that allowing teachers, parents, and college students to carry their weapons provides a possible resolution to a hairy situation.

If you pointed a gun at me, and mine was in my holster, I'd try to talk my way out of it (since unless your gun is broken or empty, nobody is fast enough to beat you in that gunfight). If the same scenario occured after I watched you shoot three other people, I'm going to take my chances and pull my piece. If you're likely to die, you're better off taking every advantage you can find than simply accepting it.

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"Bring me that horizon".