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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
First, no one ever said they can't do what they want within their own borders. You totally don't understand the idea that can and SHOULD are different things; that you can do it your way, doesn't mean others haven't done it better already, which you can learn from. Therein lies the problem: you are the perfect example of the provincial, arrogant American that has lead the United States consistently down the WRONG foreign AND domestic policy avenues.
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Wait a second.. you are again pushing this idea that what one government does in other country SHOULD by followed by another. Isn't that exact opposite of not telling someone what should be done in their country? Oops, your logic failed in the first paragraph of your rant.
And I know we've done certain things wrong in the Foreign and Domestic side of things. My answer may not be the ones you want to hear; but You are not high on my list of pleasing.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
Second, your actual opinion is that you don't even need to listen to any arguments of foreigners, just because they are foreign. Sorry, but that's a moronic opinion and partially responsible for why the United States consistently debates on reinventing the wheel. The problem is that Americans believe that they are special and that the collective experiences of the world don't matter for dong. That's why they go into long, pointless debates over whether a programme will work, even though it has successfully been applied elsewhere. It's the myth of American exceptionalism and is magnified by American typical ignorance toward anything outside of their borders.
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No, its not. Foreigners have no skin in the American system. When you live here and get citizenship, then your opinion will matter. Until then you are just another talking head.
And yet, I see the United States following the path of the rest of the world. The British, French, Dutch, Spanish and Italians all went through the phase of conquest. Why can't America? Is it because you say it's a bad idea? Well, duh. But telling someone it's a bad idea doesn't mean anything until they learn of it personally. We are going through that phase.
The question of our debates aren't about if the programs can or can not work. Its about how the hell are we going to actually make them work and how the programs are going to be paid for. But you would know that if your ignorance went further then why you read on leftist blogs.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
What world policy? There's nothing to debate. You don't actually care what goes on in other countries, nor do you see their opinions or experiences as meaningful, hence your retarded comment that only American opinions matter. The real debate is in your assertion that there's nothing to learn from other nations. In a way, America resembles a stubborn teenager rebelling against the more knowledgeable parents just because he wants to be “independent.” Maybe you will mature given more time. You are young, after all.
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Ding, Ding.. your just a genius aren't you?
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
Really, this independence-syndrome characterizes most American positions from healthcare to Iraq: it's wrong on all of them and continues to debate **** that is already well-supported, functional elsewhere. Americans are content in believing themselves superior to everyone else, yet paying far far more for the same or worse quality. The world has to let you make your own mistakes. It's the only way you will learn, given you don't listen to advice. National teens.
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LMAO.. been to the Daily Kos lately cause that sounds like a Keith Olbermann rant.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
Canada is actually a great, but not perfect example. Your understanding of it is entirely nonsensical propaganda. This is one of the many myths promulgated by rightwing thinktanks. The amount of Canadians moving to America to get healthcare is negligible. Most do not go to the United States, nor do they want to. The Canadian public is quite satisfied with their care.
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LMAO. So why is it in Canada if you live in the south you get better care then those living in the north?
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
A. The United States has far more private overhead costs than Canada. There is more duplication.
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I would buy that. But making Health Care publicly paid is not the only way to solve it.. ( this is what we argue about)
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
B. Per Capita, Americans spend vastly more on healthcare costs.
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Medicaid and Medicare set a price it'll pay AND,
those who are uninsured receive free BASIC care (all you have to do is go to an emergency room). what's not covered is past on to those who are privately insured (meaning folks like me).
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
C. And yet...the United States does NOT have results commensurable with the cost.
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Really? Show the Statistics.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
D. Lines/waits exist, but they are negligible as well and do not outweigh the benefits. Moreover, the lines and waiting times are also heavily distorted by pundits. Some experience it, but most feel it's not so bad that it cancels the other benefits. But hell, even in the United States, unless you have money, you wait in lines for specialists. Many of the worst lines are in rural areas outside of urban centres, which they dishonestly use to skew the totals.
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Show some of your Canadian statistics. I'll keep talking with my friend working in Toronto.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
In the United States, if you got lots of money, you get really good care. I fyou don't, oh well. Too bad. But wait...that's the Libertarian way! The “fuk'em” philosophy in action. So it's all good, right? Of course. Next.
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Nope. Everyone is given basic care and is treated the same way. I have health insurance, and I get the same care as those who do not. As its State law.
Again, you are showing your ignorance.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
Not quite, but I give you an A for effort. Distorting the truth, though, gives you a D. Poor form. I will still pass you, though. Barely. National Healthcare is not for the people who are wealthy or can afford the “best” care. It's a trade off between the “best” care and adequate care for the majority. Well worth it. No one stops a wealthy candadian from getting private care, and there's nothing wrong with that. In the United States the care for the poor is also far more inefficient. The US has too many half-hearted hodgepodge programmes. That decreases efficiency. One single unified system would eliminate this problem.
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And we already have National Health Care. Ask any American here. Everyone is covered if they choose to be.. Its called Medicare and Medicaid. Folks who are uninsured choose not to get on it. Read up on these programs.
If you have one single unified system, then you don't have a private health care and everyone is in the same boat. Thus your argument about it not being for the "wealthy" goes right down the drain.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
No, in reality, you will lie, as most rightwingers do, or delude yourself into thinking you were correct because a rightwing think tank told you so. Given your woefully ignorant understanding of Canada, it's safe to be skepitcal of anything you say here out. The issue of national healthcare has been done to death and is never going to convince you, so it's pointless, just as it would be pointless for me to get a creationist to understand evolution has nothing to do with the big bang.
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Uh, yeah.. it's a good thing I am not rightwinged but centrist. I would say go a head and do whatever the hell you want, just make sure it Constitutional. Until that happens, it's illegal. Now as a foreigner you wouldn't us to do anything else illegally would you? Since we went into Iraq illegally.
I am not a creationist. I actually believe in evolution. But you wouldn't know that because I RARELY talk about believes on that subject. Why you ask? Because I don't give a crap what people believe when it comes to the subject because I am not judgmental unlike you.
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian
E.g. Nuclear power is another area in America fails hard. France does it vastly better. You could learn a thing or too from the French. But you won't, because Americans dismiss anything from France, just because it's not MERICA!
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Actually America has moved towards building more Nuclear Power Plants, but your lefty buddies in America.. protest and protest and protest non stop about it since 3 Mile Island in 1979.
But recently the Nuclear Power 2010 Program initiative was started and the Energy Policy Act of 2005 which would help play for 6 new Nuclear Plants. But if Barrack Obama is elected these will probably be closed as he wants to talk about what to do with the "waste".. Even though we have a place called Yucca Mountain to store it at.. but those boo hoo leftist Environuts doesn't want Yucca Mountain or Nuclear power.
So tell me.. how much do you really know about America?
09-13-2008, 10:40 AM
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