Originally Posted by leviathon435

The International declaration of human rights grants you the right to health care.

Originally Posted by diuretic

But doesn't the US Constitution allow for the discovery of new rights? I would have thought that in a technologically advanced society the right to health care would be right there.

I mean back when the constitution was being argued over I would think medical care was pretty rudimentary and a matter for the individual, their doctor, whatever hospital services happened to be available and the individual's ability to pay, steal, barter or persuade, as well as those who might look upon an individual's need in a charitable fashion.

But now, surely Americans can't be sucked into thinking they have no right to health care?

Originally Posted by leviathon435

Apparently they can, and what's more you get intelligent Americans saying they have no right to healthcare also, it's not like it's only the stupid ones who think they have no right to it.

Originally Posted by diuretic

Fair point. But that goes to show the effectiveness of early socialisation. Oops, I said "social", I hope I don't get attacked for being a social-ist! I may faint

Anyway, if Americans are told the only rights they have are in the constitution and there are no new rights, small wonder they believe it. But it does show a severe lack of imagination. I thought it was a progressive nation. I mean those founders were pretty radical blokes, they saw the British imperialists off and set about designing their own rights according to the people they'd studied under and looked to great Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment thinkers to provide them with the intellectual ammunition to lay out exactly what the rights of the new citizenry were. I mean, go and read the preamble to the Declaration of Independence:



That's revolutionary stuff, that is totally radical. But what do we see from Americans now? Statements of selfish libertarianism. F/k you Jack, I've got mine. What happened to the poetry of the Declaration on Independence?

There are no new rights. No? Doesn't anyone in the US have the wit to even attempt to emulate the founding fathers and discover or - shock! horror! - invent new rights to meet unforeseen (back when the Declaration of Independence was signed) rights? I'm sure the founders were smart enough to know that they could never possibly enumerate the rights that their descendants would need.

But if Americans are satisfied to obey their rulers, then who am I to criticise?

Originally Posted by Lumara

I see the Constitution as extremely Libertarian. It spelled out rights that we were born with; it didn't GRANT us rights but was intended to protect the ones we had by reason of being born. It also didn't say anything about having a nanny state to care for our every need; it recognized the rights of the individual to live without tyranny, coercion, or theft. The current government has obviously gotten away from these precepts but many of us haven't forgotten them and would like to see the original government designed by the Constitution to return.

To me "Libertarian" isn't a dirty word and doesn't stand for the word "selfish." But for someone to feel that another person should provide them with a free service (such as health care) strikes me as extremely selfish. Education to become a doctor, nurse, or pharmacist costs the individual a lot of money and they cannot be expected to provide their services for free. No one can afford to live that way.

But no, wait - the person demanding free health care wants OTHER PEOPLE to pay for his care, not necessarily the health care providers themselves. This is theft. You can call it a right if you want, but taking money from person A to pay for person B is actually theft. Person B is very selfish to expect this.

Originally Posted by Comrade Joe

No health care takes away the most basic of rights - the right to life.

Originally Posted by leviathon435

The International declaration of human rights grants you the right to health care.