If it is just another police action, arrest people then.

Is it just me, or is the debate over torture eerily reminiscent of the definition of "is"?

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"All those in favor of referring a study of leadership feasibility to the political viability subcommittee to consider forming a task group, signify by saying aye!" -- Congress

Yes, but not to that extent, everyone has a different idea of what they feel is "torture" and everyone thinks that torture (their definition of it) should not be allowed. It's just that defining thing that gets us.

I'm more lax on what I feel is torture and what isn't.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Kinda like what they say about pornography, how you'll know it when you see it.

Regardless of this particular kid's circumstances, our bizarre run with Gitmo and Abu Ghraib (anyone remember that?) should force us to re-evaluate what the hell we're doing. We don't seem to grasp that the technicalities of it aren't as important as the perceptions of it. We live in a 24/7 news cycle world, now. You can't hide this stuff anymore, and people are going to judge it, and us, by what they see. That picture of the hooded guy hooked up to batteries has become iconic, and I, for one am bothered that THAT is how we are being viewed.

Keeping people in Gitmo for years on end without trial may be technically permissible, but it's pretty contrary to what we present ourselves as. Aren't we basically trying to convince "hearts and minds" that American Democracy is superior? If we treat these untried guys like any other country would, then what's the point? Get them to trial, and the State hasthe burden of proof. That should be a given, and it chills me that this is even an issue.

The waterboarding thing simply shouldn't even BE a debate. Maybe I am being overly sensitive, but I expect and demand America conducts itself with honor and goes even beyond the Geneva Codes. Obviously, I am not saying give captured insurgents tea and cupcakes, but I think we can do much better than lowering ourselves to waterboarding and other methods of extraction.

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"All those in favor of referring a study of leadership feasibility to the political viability subcommittee to consider forming a task group, signify by saying aye!" -- Congress

That's the problem: people are stupidly judging things based on subjective perception instead of objective fact. Worse, they're basing their perceptions on what the media idiots tell them is happening - and we all know the media idiots spin the news in order to get people to draw specific conclusions.

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."