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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
That is the difference. The police didn't "refuse" to do anything, they are (as they should be) unable to take physical action without proof that they are doing the right thing. I'm willing to bet that most people don't want the police acting more on gut instint and acting without evidence to support their actions.

Also, Vigilantism is not just doing the police's job because it is not their job to beat people. If she grabbed the kid and hauled him down to the jail, that would be very different from grabbing him and popping him in the gut. If people were doing just the police's job (AKA citizen's arrest), that would be fine and even encouraged, but she did the job of judge, jury, and executioner aswell.
Then why didn't they install cameras? Isn't Britain big on the whole "CCTV" thing? Or why didn't they just have a cop in plainclothes walk through the area a couple times each night for a week or two, watch for trouble? Yeah, I know the cops probably have better things to do, but if you catch one of the dip****s and give him three months of community service and charge him for repairs to the memorial, chances are it will cease to be a problem overnight. That wouldn't take excessive manpower and it would improve the community a good deal. If people know that they're likely to get caught and punished, they'll be less likely to commit the crime. That's why crime is a problem: people know that they can get in, do what they want, and get out before the police get there and get off scot-free.

Since the police DIDN'T do anything to at least attempt to catch someone, I'd consider it a refusal to uphold the law. And based on what I said above, since she did cause damage to life and property, she should probably still be punished, but with a reduced sentence. I consider a punch to the gut to be not overly unreasonable considering her emotional attachment.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2008, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael View Post
UNITED KINGDOM NEWS

So anyone from the UK here care to less us know about what's happening with your judicial system? YOBS!

Daughter of WWII pilot convicted of assault after reprimanding teenager who 'vandalised war memorial'

By Luke Salkeld

The daughter of a Second World War RAF pilot who reprimanded a teenager who she accused of vandalising a war memorial has been convicted of assault.

Julie Lake, 50, believed the 15-year-old was one of a number of youths who had damaged the remembrance garden in her village dedicated to those killed fighting for Britain.

But Mrs Lake was arrested after giving a boy, whom she believed to be the ringleader, a talking-to and a 'cuff round the ear'.

She tackled him after she saw at least one youth riding a BMX bike through freshly-laid flower beds.

Magistrates heard that when she grabbed his shirt collar, he said: 'That's assault'.

Mrs Lake claimed she was performing a 'moral obligation' following months of anti-social behaviour and vandalism at the memorial.

But weeks later she was arrested and yesterday was convicted of assault, criminal damage and a public order offence at North Avon Magistrates Court in Yate, near Bristol.

She was cleared of punching a 14-year-old in the stomach during the fracas.
Sentencing Mrs Lake to a 12-month conditional discharge, District judge David Parsons said she had shown a 'complete lack of self-control'.

She was found guilty of criminal damage for angrily throwing a bicycle belonging to one of the youths into the road, and shouting: 'Now you know what it feels like to have your property damaged'.


The judge rejected her claim the she was trying to perform a citizen's arrest and ordered her to pay £400 towards costs.


He said: 'I'm sure that having seen the damage to the flower beds, you simply lost your temper.


'I can understand you lost it, particularly because of your family relations in the war, and it is hardly surprising that you did.


'You reacted spontaneously, without thought for the consequences.


'You confronted the child with no plan in mind. The throwing of a bike into the road shows a complete loss of self-control, not the actions of someone executing a citizen's arrest.'


Before her arrest, Mrs Lake said she had become frustrated by youths vandalising the garden in Mangotsfield, Bristol.


She said: 'The memorial is a sacred place - it's like a grave. How dare these youngsters tarnish the memories of those who made a sacrifice for future generations?


'I've called the police and I've tried to talk to these kids but I've got nowhere.


'I lost my temper in frustration after two years of trying to get something done and immediately the police are after me. It's ridiculous.'


Mrs Lake's grandfather James Byrne was an infantryman who was killed, aged 29, in the Western Front trenches of France during the First World War


Her father William Byrne was an RAF pilot in World War II, and Julie's husband Peter, 63, a retired airman, also lost his grandfather in the 1914-18 war.


The trial - estimated to have cost taxpayers more than £100,000 - earlier heard how Mrs Lake was surrounded by up to 25 jeering youths by the memorial at the end of last year.


She told how the gang surrounded her, pushed her and shouted: 'You can't touch us, we're 15, we can do what the f*** we like.'


When the 15-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was questioned in court about the war memorial, he replied: ''It means nothing to me, I guess it's for some people who died in the war.'

Daughter of WWII pilot convicted of assault after reprimanding teenager who 'vandalised war memorial' | Mail Online
draft the little buggers and send the lot of them off to Afghanstan...
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2008, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AHFN View Post
Then why didn't they install cameras? Isn't Britain big on the whole "CCTV" thing? Or why didn't they just have a cop in plainclothes walk through the area a couple times each night for a week or two, watch for trouble? Yeah, I know the cops probably have better things to do, but if you catch one of the dip****s and give him three months of community service and charge him for repairs to the memorial, chances are it will cease to be a problem overnight. That wouldn't take excessive manpower and it would improve the community a good deal. If people know that they're likely to get caught and punished, they'll be less likely to commit the crime. That's why crime is a problem: people know that they can get in, do what they want, and get out before the police get there and get off scot-free.
That's just more cost to the tax payers. A police walking through in plain clothing would not likely help much, since the kids would likely not do anything if anyone was present, even if that person seemed like a citizen (like a plain clothed officer would).

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Since the police DIDN'T do anything to at least attempt to catch someone, I'd consider it a refusal to uphold the law. And based on what I said above, since she did cause damage to life and property, she should probably still be punished, but with a reduced sentence. I consider a punch to the gut to be not overly unreasonable considering her emotional attachment.
So everytime a crime goes unpunished, it is because the police refuse to do anything? I disagree, this occured because the police had no suspects, and no evidence against anyone. Unless you don't mind the police attacking on word of mouth alone with no evidence, there was nothing that they could do which was within their power.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TheStripey1 View Post
draft the little buggers and send the lot of them off to Afghanstan...
Are you being serious? I'll assume not unless you say otherwise.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:17 AM
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Are you being serious? I'll assume not unless you say otherwise.
I take it that you essentially agree with the alleged statement the teens made that "You can't touch us, we're 15, we can do what the f*** we like."
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:26 AM
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I take it that you essentially agree with the alleged statement the teens made that "You can't touch us, we're 15, we can do what the f*** we like."
No, I agree with the sentiment of being innocent before proven guilty.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:35 AM
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No, I agree with the sentiment of being innocent before proven guilty.
They're teenagers: they're never innocent.

Where the hell was the police when all this vandalism was going on and why the hell did this woman have to deal with this crap for two years????

And then there's the fact that this supposed ringleader of this gang of thugs didn't know what the monument was for and that it meant nothing to him. That shows the utter perversity of British society (though American society isn't far behind). When the sacrifices of your own fellow-citizens means nothing to you...
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 11:19 AM
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They're teenagers: they're never innocent.

Where the hell was the police when all this vandalism was going on and why the hell did this woman have to deal with this crap for two years????

And then there's the fact that this supposed ringleader of this gang of thugs didn't know what the monument was for and that it meant nothing to him. That shows the utter perversity of British society (though American society isn't far behind). When the sacrifices of your own fellow-citizens means nothing to you...
I agree, but that's not a reason to assault the guy, and like you say he is the "supposed" ring-leader, what we do know is very little. The rest is merely conjecture and guessing, possibly blind prejudice on the part of some (I'm not pointing at you here).
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 11:28 AM
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They're teenagers: they're never innocent.
Excuse me?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by leviathon435 View Post
I agree, but that's not a reason to assault the guy, and like you say he is the "supposed" ring-leader, what we do know is very little. The rest is merely conjecture and guessing, possibly blind prejudice on the part of some (I'm not pointing at you here).
I wouldn't call what the woman did "assault." Maybe one of the reasons these damned teenagers are running around vandalizing monuments and terrorizing the neighborhood is because there haven't been enough people in their lives doing to them what this woman did. Where are the fathers of these boys and why haven't those fathers given them a few well-deserved kicks in the backside?
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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