So, in other words you want to punish people for doing the right thing?

__________________
"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
- The Declaration of Independence

No I want to punish people for breaking the law. And weather It was the right thing or not to do that is what she did. She did not have to, she chose to.

And going to jail is the logical result of breaking the law. And if I chose to break the law, for what I deemed was the right thing, I would expect to be put in jail.

But that would not stop me from doing it. I would not for a minute believe they should make an exception.

It is called sacrifice. You know the result of your actions but take them anyway, on principle.


How far do you let that "old boys club" Mentality go? How ambiguous does the good deed have to be before you stop making exceptions?

It is a slippery slope to full out vigilantism.

__________________
Adaption is compromise. When the world met me it shuddered, groaned, it knelt at my feet. Illyria was all they needed to know.

I sell game curency here

True. But why didn't the police do their ****ing jobs in the first place? They're there to enforce the laws, right? Then how come they let the fifteen year olds vandalize (which I assume is against the law in Britain), but when the woman broke the law to stop them (and in the US, depending on the state what she did could be classed as self-defense, or, depending on the state, defense of public property or somesuch) the police come down on her like a ton of bricks and put her in jail.

What the ****?

__________________
"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
- The Declaration of Independence

I do not feel qualified to answer this.
I agree They should have gone after the mindless brats as well.

__________________
Adaption is compromise. When the world met me it shuddered, groaned, it knelt at my feet. Illyria was all they needed to know.

I sell game curency here

Yeah, you're right that teenagers do a lot of stupid things, probably more than most but the problem we have in Britain is that everyone gets tarred with the same brush by the media, by the local council and by many in the public. From looking into the facts of this story and past the opinions it seems like a woman got pissed off and attacked some teens not because they had done anything necessarily but because some other teens had rode through flower beds. Just place that into context of race, an angry woman attacks a black man/teen/boy because another black man/teen/boy rode through some flower beds. It's ridiculous, and yet the paper presents it as the teens' fault. I'm all for teaching people that they can't get away with anti-social and criminal behaviour, but not random innocent people who just happen to be the same age.

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Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

I don't think this article provided us with enough information. What were the kids doing when she attacked them? Were they just random kids that she'd never seen commit any crime? If so, she's psychotic. Were they laughing and looking smug about what their buddy had just done to the flower beds? If so, I'd say that she has anger management issues but that she didn't deserve a full sentence. Were they kids she'd seen vandalize before, laughing and looking smug? If so, she still over-reacted, but again, she shouldn't get twelve months in prison for it. Were they kids she'd seen commit vandalism (and could prove it)? If so, she's mostly justified (though throwing the bike was a little "out there").

I hear "vigilantism" bandied about a lot, and I'd like to propose a question: What is vigilantism, and what is bad about it?

In my mind, vigilantism is people upholding the laws when the police refuse to uphold them.

BZZZZ. FULL STOP. HALT.

That is IT. That is the LIMIT of what I believe acceptable. I do not believe in the anarchy that most people think is the result of vigilantism. I feel obliged to get your attention because otherwise that is the inevitable argument used against me, even though that has nothing to do with what I believe.

If someone upholds the law in an orderly manner, they should get a medal. If they uphold the law in a disorderly manner but no one gets hurt, they should get reprimanded and maybe do additional community service, but no more. If someone upholds the law in a disorderly manner and there is damage to life or property, they should be held accountable, but maybe with a somewhat reduced sentence, depending on circumstances. If someone carries out a personal agenda in the name of upholding the law, or if vigilantes bring the wrong person to justice, they should bear the full wrath of the law. No more, no less.

Doing this "upholding of the law" is only acceptable when the police refuse to do anything. That is acceptable. More is not.

__________________
"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
- The Declaration of Independence

I agree AHFN, the article gives us very few facts and yet is still written in a way which immediately paints the teens as the problem and sets out them as the "bad guys" as it were. This is what I have a problem with, not people upholding the law when necessary, and with restraint.

__________________
Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

Call me Phaedrus. ;)

__________________
"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."
- The Declaration of Independence

Oh, you're Phae, welcome back dude. Damn, I should've guessed.

__________________
Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

That is the difference. The police didn't "refuse" to do anything, they are (as they should be) unable to take physical action without proof that they are doing the right thing. I'm willing to bet that most people don't want the police acting more on gut instint and acting without evidence to support their actions.

Also, Vigilantism is not just doing the police's job because it is not their job to beat people. If she grabbed the kid and hauled him down to the jail, that would be very different from grabbing him and popping him in the gut. If people were doing just the police's job (AKA citizen's arrest), that would be fine and even encouraged, but she did the job of judge, jury, and executioner aswell.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides