I would've said exactly what Donkey said to you if he hadn't already.

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Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

And I would have answered you exactly as I answered DJ.

You're back bourne!

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Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

Because you have no real answer for it.

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"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch

No, I'm trying to keep the thread on topic. It's something that you've criticized me for in the past and now you're inviting the same conduct.

The topic is Chavez and Venezuelan advancement. As I have said, if you want to debate a comparison of the US to Venezuela I'd suggest that you start a new thread rather than sidetrack this one.

I've demonstrated that Chavez isn't an effective leader. Venezuela's crime rate is terrible, the police are ineffective, the economy is slowing, foreign investment is down, consumer goods are in short supply and Chavez's popularity is waning. I repeat, Chavez and Bolivarian socialism are failures.

You have shown nothing. I have shown that crime rates are better than the US, the economy has experienced 18 successive quarters of growth and we will see how popular he and his party are come the November elections.

And what they said was completely on topic. It illustrates that using your standard not only could we seay the US system is a failure but probably any system of government, perhaps outside that of Russia and China.

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Viva Fidel

If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?

Joe, et.al., how about some facts to support your claim that crime rates are higher in the US?

here is some info on crime in Venezuela (check out the sources for more info):

"By one estimate the country has the highest per-capita murder rate in the world. More than 11,000 murders were reported in 2003, as compared with only 2,000 in 1991. In mid-2004 Venezuela’s estimated population totaled 26.2 million, which would be a murder rate of 42 per 100,000. In the mid-1970s Lesotho witnessed a murder rate of 141 per 100,000, while more recently Columbia's murder rate was variously estimate at between 63 and 84 per 100,000. At about 50 per 100,000 Washington, DC may have the highest murder rate in the developed world. Caracas, Venezuela reputedly has a murder rate over 100 per 100,000. [SOURCE] In early 2006 the murder rate in Baghdad appeared to be about 200 per 100,000 [SOURCE]"

Venezuela Introduction

By way of comparison with the US...

Venezuela had a 2004 murder rate of 42 per 100K while the US in 2005 had a murder rate of 5 to 6 per 100K. So even though this doesn't address other forms of crime, I'd say it's pretty clear that one is far less likely to get killed in the US. Also, if a crime is committed in the US, the authorities are far more likely to actually investigate the crime and possibly even catch and prosecute those involved. Something unlikely in Venezuela.

Wikimedia Error

As for the 18 quarters of growth...

while the non-petroleum sectors of Venezuela's economy have perfromed well over the last several years, it seems unlikely that the economy would be growing as quickly, if at all, if global oil prices weren't as high as they are. And in many ways, Venezuela has the US to thank for the strength of their economy.

"US-Venezuelan commercial ties are close. The United States is Venezuela's most important trading partner, representing about half of both imports and exports. In turn, Venezuela is the United States’ third-largest export market in Latin America, purchasing U.S. machinery, transportation equipment, agricultural commodities, and auto parts. Venezuela's opening of its petroleum sector to foreign investment in 1996 created extensive trade and investment opportunities for US companies. As a result, Venezuela is one of the top four suppliers of foreign oil to the United States."

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"Yes. That's correct. Making a statement that's 100% true can't be bigoted."