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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Joe View Post
What shady country ? Venezuela is no shady country, it is a social democracy that has invaded no countries, it doesn't fly people around the world to be tortured, it overthrows no other leaders, it helps the poor at home and abroad (including in your own country). If that is what makes a shady country then the world by all accounts needs more shady countries.

Venezuela is no Saudi Arabia, it is no Israel, it is no Colombia.
So Chavez being arrested is a sign of the government helping the poor? What about the massive amount of murders that take place their each year? As for Venezuela being a "social democracy" why is that every "elected" official has solid ties with Chavez?

I do not think that Venezuela is a bad country because my government says so. I am smart enough to do my own research and form my own opinions. Putin is trying to start the Cold War again. You all talk about how blind we Americans are but you cannot seem to realize that not every Communist/Socialist is some freedom fighter.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:13 PM
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You lot still dont even get it. This is not a militaristic move by Venezuela, it is political strategy. They are sending out a message, not that they will defeat a US invasion but that they will fight it and American will lose lives, many. They are making the more intelligent think about more Americans coming home in bodybags, which such people do not want. Again no one is saying Venezuela will defeat an initial US invasion but they could hurt you in the process and then another quagmire you will be stuck in. It is a political move designed to sway public opinion away from any such imperialist agenda concerning Venezuela.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Joe View Post
You lot still dont even get it. This is not a militaristic move by Venezuela, it is political strategy. They are sending out a message, not that they will defeat a US invasion but that they will fight it and American will lose lives, many. They are making the more intelligent think about more Americans coming home in bodybags, which such people do not want. Again no one is saying Venezuela will defeat an initial US invasion but they could hurt you in the process and then another quagmire you will be stuck in. It is a political move designed to sway public opinion away from any such imperialist agenda concerning Venezuela.
Unless they keep those aircraft off of the ground 24 by 7 then a few decently placed ICBM's or MOABS will end Venezuelans aspirations really quick.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:19 PM
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Since it is just about impossible to prove a negative, I would not even bother to attempt it. Why should I?
I'm not asking for you to prove anything, i am asking for you to make a case that the US does not practise neocolonialism and/or that imperiallism is the modern day domination that takes the guise of neocolonialism. I really shouldn't have to spell out for you. I probably don't, it's probably the case that you cannot make such an argument because you know it to be wholly false.


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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
This is clearly a circular argument, as it begins with the false premise that we are all in substantial agreement that the US is an "empire" (it is not), and that those who are uncomfortable with the concept are therefore obligated to "take...back" the country. More ultra-leftist propaganda.
Then make an argument as i asked for above. It is a debate forum. Are you incapable of debate ? I have shown you why i believe the US to be an empire, now you show me why you believe it not to be. That is how debate works.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Joe View Post
You lot still dont even get it. This is not a militaristic move by Venezuela, it is political strategy. They are sending out a message, not that they will defeat a US invasion but that they will fight it and American will lose lives, many. They are making the more intelligent think about more Americans coming home in bodybags, which such people do not want. Again no one is saying Venezuela will defeat an initial US invasion but they could hurt you in the process and then another quagmire you will be stuck in. It is a political move designed to sway public opinion away from any such imperialist agenda concerning Venezuela.
How can America lose "many lives" if Venezuela cannot achieve air supriority? Chavez is taunting the US, and if he makes the wrong move then history will be written once again. I doubt that Russia would bail them out.

You need to come down to reality as far as America's military might. Remember, that's why we are an empire.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:21 PM
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Unless they keep those aircraft off of the ground 24 by 7 then a few decently placed ICBM's or MOABS will end Venezuelans aspirations really quick.
jesus, you still don't get it. What aspirations ? I am not saying you can't score an initial victory over the Venezuelan military. I am saying Venezuela is making a political statement, that even the most amatuer of strategist could see.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer View Post
How can America lose "many lives" if Venezuela cannot achieve air supriority? Chavez is taunting the US, and if he makes the wrong move then history will be written once again. I doubt that Russia would bail them out.

You need to come down to reality as far as America's military might. Remember, that's why we are an empire.
They dont need air superiority to force America into a loss of life. Did Iraq have air superiority ? Hell no, but you still lost a sh*tload of troops, and still are. Chavez isnt looking to say we will defeat you, he is looking for the compassionate Americans (i know there are some out there) to think twice about any such imperialistic ambitions. It's painstakingly obvious.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:34 PM
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It it be possible that Venezuela has aspirations that no one else is privy too? What if Chavez decided to use his new found toys on another country?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Joe View Post
They dont need air superiority to force America into a loss of life. Did Iraq have air superiority ? Hell no, but you still lost a sh*tload of troops, and still are. Chavez isnt looking to say we will defeat you, he is looking for the compassionate Americans (i know there are some out there) to think twice about any such imperialistic ambitions. It's painstakingly obvious.
If Chavez decides to launch military action against the US he will be defeated quickly. Those compasionate Americans you say are out there will look at it as a direct attack against the US and will have the majority's of our people's full support. Those that oppose it will protest, as usual. We will defend outselves if Chavez decides to be a bigger idiot than he already is. Keep dreaming.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer View Post
If Chavez decides to launch military action against the US he will be defeated quickly. Those compasionate Americans you say are out there will look at it as a direct attack against the US and will have the majority's of our people's full support. Those that oppose it will protest, as usual. We will defend outselves if Chavez decides to be a bigger idiot than he already is. Keep dreaming.
It would be delusional for Chavez to attack the US, he is not an idiot and he wouldn't do it, he likes Americans - they are his comrades too. Any chance of a war with US and Venezuela would be purely defensive from Venezuelas point of view. I doubt there will be any war, i have faith that the American people would not allow it.
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