"Then conquer we must, for our cause is just." If the author had intended there to be an 'if' in the statement, he would have put it in there. He didn't.

Look, I don't think that we are advocating that we should go to war at every turn because of the Star Spangled Banner. We're merely indicating that the song, like many, contains words that are either not applicable to today or don't reflect the understanding of modern America. It's lunacy to believe that singing a song and taking a policy position are the same thing, and that's the root of the argument. Singing the national anthem is all well and good, but policy is what one should be looking at. The same is true with Mandela. The argument is not to make outrageous assumptions about the man based upon singing a song.

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Political Wrinkles
Kizzume Forum :: Index
Political Fever

You are trying to modernize a poem written in 1814 about defending the United States from British aggression to fit your idea of what it means. There is a big difference.. between the US National Anthem and the majority of Anthems around the world which were written about one's country.

Almost all countries have Nationalist songs about War as most Countries are created by War. To think it means one is naturally aggressive because of a song is foolish.

Mandela was part of a "Terrorist" group called the Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK).. that is a fact. He was arrested for his activities that killed people in South Africa. Even Mandela admits to this. From ANC's website.

"Our resort to the armed struggle in 1960 with the formation of the military wing of the ANC (Umkhonto we Sizwe) was a purely defensive action against the violence of apartheid. The factors which necessitated the armed struggle still exist today. We have no option but to continue. We express the hope that a climate conducive to a negotiated settlement would be created soon, so that there may no longer be the need for the armed struggle." Mandela on Feb 11th, 1990...

I have nothing against Mandela. But I do have a problem with people who think he was a Saint. He wasn't, nor is Gerry Adams..

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Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

Handlebars

"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

come on you know you wanna play football..

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87

Sharpeville massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sharpesville Massacre (1960). And this is what Mandela was confronting. South African Police open fire on a peaceful demonstration.

No he wan't a saint. However, he was challenging one of the most repressive governments in the world.

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National Debt =

Michael, I stood up for Mandela. Here..

I give him credit for his role in ending Apartheid.

But when people like Violalee and Debateman excuse Mandela by acting as he was a saint and ignore the violence he caused it becomes a double standard.

There is no justification in glorifying people who partake in the same bias they are fighting.

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Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

Handlebars

"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

come on you know you wanna play football..

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87

Excellent point and I agree.

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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."

I feel no need to "work" to defend the fact that making the "choice" to sing a song in public that extols the act of killing based on the the color of the victim's skin does nothing to express a desire to mend fences and move past the injustices of the past by delving out more injustice.
Common sense.
Non-sense. If people sing songs without giving thought to the real meaning, it is an expose' on themselves. When I sing the American anthem, I mean that if anybody attacks America, it will become all consuming to me to kill as many as I possibly can. Where as, at this point in time, I have no desire to harm, and pray for the good health and happiness of those same people.
People, and the teachers of people must make understanding and the meaning of "words" paramount in their day to day lives.
A man has nothing more than "his word" that defines and represents him as decent or unworthy.

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"My wife, she gets mad when I caress my machine gun, but she
understands." Now close your eyes and repeat: It's a Religion of Peace!