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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2008, 06:53 PM
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I have to agree with Phaedrus here. If you want to discuss or debate the book at least give us some citations to talk about. People are very very unlikely to pay for a book in order to debate this topic.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phædrus View Post
I don't have time to read the book, and I'm not going to shell out money for it either, not just for some internet debate. Quote the key parts. It's like if I told you to go buy Scientific American so I didn't have to explain my argument.
I understand. Well, try to google the title than.... :DD
This is a world famous book, and I am actually surprised that some people never even heard about it....


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Originally Posted by vladward8 View Post
Financially and politically, this conquest is going to do to the US what Afghanistan did to the USSR. Since Z.B. was one of the primary architechts of US Afghan strategy, there's a certain poetic justice here.
Yeah....
Zbigniew Brzezinski warns of false flag attack to trigger Iran war

Zbigniew Brzezinski warns of false flag attack to trigger Iran war


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Originally Posted by Skeletom182 View Post
I have to agree with Phaedrus here. If you want to discuss or debate the book at least give us some citations to talk about. People are very very unlikely to pay for a book in order to debate this topic.

As I said above - you can google it - zbigniew brzezinski grand chess board - Google Search


Here are some quotes from "The Grand Chessboard":

"For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... Now a non-Eurasian power is preeminent in Eurasia - and America's global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained. (p.30)

"Henceforth, the United States may have to determine how to cope with regional coalitions that seek to push America out of Eurasia, thereby threatening America's status as a global power." (p.55)


"The world's energy consumption is bound to vastly increase over the next two or three decades. Estimates by the U.S. Department of energy anticipate that world demand will rise by more than 50 percent between 1993 and 2015, with the most significant increase in consumption occurring in the Far East. The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)


"America is now the only global superpower, and Eurasia is the globe's central arena. Hence, what happens to the distribution of power on the Eurasian continent will be of decisive importance to America's global primacy and to America's historical legacy." (p.194)


"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)


------------------

Zbigniew Brzezinski
The Grand Chessboard

American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives

Key Quotes From Zbigniew Brzezinksi's Seminal Book

"Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power." - (p. xiii)
Zbigniew Brzezinski - The Grand Chessboard
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2008, 08:44 PM
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I didnt know that the US was in charge of NATO.... Russia sucks and is unstable. I dont care how Putin trys to spin it. There are still quit a few Communist Hardliners running around in the Mother Land.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Governor Of Alaska View Post
"For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... Now a non-Eurasian power is preeminent in Eurasia - and America's global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained. (p.30)
I'd say the main aim now is to open this region up for new markets and also to control resources. The American elite empire machine knows that eventually its gonna come down to a game for world domination with China and Russia.

Quote:
"Henceforth, the United States may have to determine how to cope with regional coalitions that seek to push America out of Eurasia, thereby threatening America's status as a global power." (p.55)
It's been going on for decades and is likely to continue.

Quote:
"The world's energy consumption is bound to vastly increase over the next two or three decades. Estimates by the U.S. Department of energy anticipate that world demand will rise by more than 50 percent between 1993 and 2015, with the most significant increase in consumption occurring in the Far East. The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)
Yup, goes back to controlling resources. Ever play strategy games like Civ? That is how I'd play the game if I were them. I usually try to destabilize the region I desire with agents, in the case of lacking clear military superiority, before trying to take it over.

Quote:
"America is now the only global superpower, and Eurasia is the globe's central arena. Hence, what happens to the distribution of power on the Eurasian continent will be of decisive importance to America's global primacy and to America's historical legacy." (p.194)
In my view Russia and China are superpowers. Russia and China have just as much reason and impetus to try and control this region. America has just had a slight head start.

Quote:
"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)
Such is the plight of organic solidarity with a good helping of negative liberty and the reason to use magic and illusions in politics.
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Last edited by Skeletom182 : 02-04-2008 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Doh!
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:53 PM
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From New York Times:

K.G.B.-Trained Hungarian Has NATO Role

Published: February 4, 2008

BERLIN — The new chief of the Hungarian secret services, who spent six years at the K.G.B.’s academy in Moscow during the 1980s, in January became the chairman of NATO’s intelligence committee, a rotating post that is held for a year.

Some NATO diplomats, asked about the appointment, said in recent days that his background might make NATO countries less willing to share intelligence with one another.

Sandor Laborc, 49, was chosen by Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany of Hungary in December to become director of the country’s counterintelligence National Security Office.

The appointment followed a dispute over the issue between the governing coalition led by the Socialists — the former Communists — and the main opposition party, Fidesz. Mr. Laborc was trained at the Dzerzhinsky Academy of the K.G.B. from 1983 to 1989, members of the national security committee in the Hungarian Parliament said. He failed to win support from that committee, which oversees such appointments but whose vote is not binding.

Despite that, Mr. Gyurcsany and Gyorgy Szilvasy, the minister responsible for the intelligence services, went through with the appointment.

“A decision by the National Security Committee has no binding effect,” Mr. Gyurcsany’s office said in a statement issued in response to several written questions about Mr. Laborc. “Gyorgy Szilvasy had the right to make a decision in his own capacity and advise the prime minister. He justified the recommendation by introducing General Laborc as someone with unquestioned professional credentials.”

In January, Mr. Laborc took over the chairmanship of NATO’s special committee dealing with a range of intelligence issues, NATO officials confirmed Friday. It was Hungary’s turn to fill the post. The committee, whose main task is to analyze and share intelligence, includes all of the secret service chiefs of NATO countries.

Several NATO delegations, including the United States, whose ambassador was asked to comment on Mr. Laborc’s appointment, declined to do so.


READ MORE - The New York Times > Log In



Sandor Laborc

Secretele NATO, la mana unui fost KGB-ist

-- Sandor Laborc, seful Comitetului pentru Informatii al Aliantei Nord-Atlantice, a studiat sase ani la academia KGB de la Moscova

Secretele NATO, la mana unui fost KGB-ist: ZIUA
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Phædrus View Post
So... A book by the man who was president Carter's National Security Adviser (Carter being recognized as one of the worst presidents ever) is relevant to today's situation... how? After all, the political landscape is completely changed, the economic landscape is completely changed, the technological standpoint is changed, the Cold War is over, US/NATO troops are committed elsewhere, and the president we have is a bungling idiot who can't plan his next breakfast. So a book written by a guy some thirty years ago is supposedly guiding our current foreign policy in regards to Russia? I don't buy it. Now, if you can provide a photograph of this book in the Oval Office with bookmarks sticking out all over and Bush and Cheney hovering over it, then I might pay attention. But this as it is ridiculous.
Yes, its very relevant today. The book is based on securing Oil/ Natural Gas Supplies in are of the Middle East. This includes Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Turkey.

We supplied the Afghans in the 80's with the promise of drilling rights in Afghanistan after the war was over. The Taliban denied the US the right.

The book is about securing World Dominance by the US. Bring the "Empire" alive.

Take a read at some of the quotes from the book
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Last edited by Finny : 02-04-2008 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Yes, its very relevant today. The book is based on securing Oil/ Natural Gas Supplies in are of the Middle East. This includes Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Turkey.

We supplied the Afghans in the 80's with the promise of drilling rights in Afghanistan after the war was over. The Taliban denied the US the right.

The book is about securing World Dominance by the US. Bring the "Empire" alive.

Take a read at some of the quotes from the book
Afghanistan? To my knowledge, Afghanistan has few, if any, oil deposits. I found a list of Afghanistan's natural resources and did a ctrl+F for "oil." The closest I got was "soil." Another quick glance through I discovered "petroleum," though. Intrigued, I investigated further. Surprisingly, I found nothing about this petroleum, only a vague reference to "undiscovered petroleum deposits in Afghanistan." If they're undiscovered, we can hardly tap them, right? Afghanistan also has basically no oil production at all, though this can probably be ascribed to political turmoil, with the USSR invading, then a civil war, and now the US invading.

But apparently there are no major oil deposits in Afghanistan, at least none yet discovered. Just speculation on possible oil reserves. Hardly something to start a war over.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Phædrus View Post
Afghanistan? To my knowledge, Afghanistan has few, if any, oil deposits. I found a list of Afghanistan's natural resources and did a ctrl+F for "oil." The closest I got was "soil." Another quick glance through I discovered "petroleum," though. Intrigued, I investigated further. Surprisingly, I found nothing about this petroleum, only a vague reference to "undiscovered petroleum deposits in Afghanistan." If they're undiscovered, we can hardly tap them, right? Afghanistan also has basically no oil production at all, though this can probably be ascribed to political turmoil, with the USSR invading, then a civil war, and now the US invading.

But apparently there are no major oil deposits in Afghanistan, at least none yet discovered. Just speculation on possible oil reserves. Hardly something to start a war over.
Soviets invaded Afghanistan for Natural Gas... There is also a proposed pipeline to move oil and natural gas through Afghanistan..

the pipeline


Speculation is a very good reason to start a war. The US Government removed Native Americans from the Black Hills because of Gold.

So it happens.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:44 PM
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The book itself says that the major reserves are in the Caspian Sea - so why didn't we invade Turkmenistan or Azerbaijan? They're known to have oil, and they're just as weak politically and economically as Afghanistan. It would be just as easy, if not easier. If the underlying implication here (that being that the US lied about Al Queida being in Afghanistan) is true, the US could just as easily have said that Osama was in a country bordering the Caspian Sea, and therefore have an easier conquest and more easily assured riches.

Just pointing some things out.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Phædrus View Post
The book itself says that the major reserves are in the Caspian Sea - so why didn't we invade Turkmenistan or Azerbaijan? They're known to have oil, and they're just as weak politically and economically as Afghanistan. It would be just as easy, if not easier. If the underlying implication here (that being that the US lied about Al Queida being in Afghanistan) is true, the US could just as easily have said that Osama was in a country bordering the Caspian Sea, and therefore have an easier conquest and more easily assured riches.

Just pointing some things out.

Azerbaijan is allowing US troops in Azerbaijan, about 70,000 total. So Azerbaijan is a "friend". So drilling there is not an issue. Their military is involved in the War on Terror.

Trukmenistan agreements

Now what lies between them is Iran and you know how the White House feels about Iran.

Its a just another move in the game of Chess..
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