What I see!!!! - Page 2 - Political Fever

Thunderstorm Patriot · #11 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 01:59 PM

There are many reasons to oppose illegal workers. Let me give you one:

In 1990 the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the construction industry was the fifth largest employer of Americans that are making a living wage. Current statistics show that the construction industry no longer provides a living wage. Analysis of this phenomenon shows that the catalyst to this change was hiring of illegal workers.

In truth Americans cannot compete on a level playing field when illegals are hired. There are several reasons:

Employers much pay a 6.2% Social Security premium on declared workers.

Employers must pay workman's compensation insurance in many states. In Michigan it averaged a 2.25% premium.

Legal workers can claim unemployment benefits which are almost guaranteed in seasonal work like construction. In Michigan that averaged about 11% of seasonal employment wages.

So add up these three factors and you a 19.45% expense to an employer for a legal worker that they can avoid with an illegal. now add in the more intangible things like potential for litigation and it gets even worse.

Now factor in that illegals often work for much less than an American can afford to. Illegals often share a house or apartment among eight or more workers. Their employers often provide transportation to the work site. They use the emergency room as their doctors office then stiff the hospital on the bills. These are all very real things that happen frequently.

I have a neighbor that did roofing for over a decade as a profession. He has not been able to work as a roofer for several years now. He found that illegals took the jobs. He was getting $12 an hour when he was employed. Hardly an upper-class wage. Yet illegals were willing to do the same job for $8 an hour. So now if you factor in the nearly 20% hit on extra expenses, the employer would have to hire my neighbor for about $6.50 an hour. That is half of what he was making before the illegals killed the labor market.

Now sure, we can compete with the illegals if we wish to live with a dozen workers in a house. We can compete if we want to stop having our own transportation and having our employers drive us to work. We can live like slaves to the employers and have a crappy standard of living.

Sorry, I will have a revolution first.

FRYandBENDER · #12 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 03:22 PM

We could start to vote for people who do not seek office for their own benefit. When it comes down to it, if our nation does fall apart, the blame can not be put on the government, or illegals, or anyone other than ourselves.

FXASHUN · #13 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderstorm Patriot

There are many reasons to oppose illegal workers. Let me give you one:

In 1990 the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the construction industry was the fifth largest employer of Americans that are making a living wage. Current statistics show that the construction industry no longer provides a living wage. Analysis of this phenomenon shows that the catalyst to this change was hiring of illegal workers.

In truth Americans cannot compete on a level playing field when illegals are hired. There are several reasons:

Employers much pay a 6.2% Social Security premium on declared workers.

Employers must pay workman's compensation insurance in many states. In Michigan it averaged a 2.25% premium.

Legal workers can claim unemployment benefits which are almost guaranteed in seasonal work like construction. In Michigan that averaged about 11% of seasonal employment wages.

So add up these three factors and you a 19.45% expense to an employer for a legal worker that they can avoid with an illegal. now add in the more intangible things like potential for litigation and it gets even worse.

Now factor in that illegals often work for much less than an American can afford to. Illegals often share a house or apartment among eight or more workers. Their employers often provide transportation to the work site. They use the emergency room as their doctors office then stiff the hospital on the bills. These are all very real things that happen frequently.

I have a neighbor that did roofing for over a decade as a profession. He has not been able to work as a roofer for several years now. He found that illegals took the jobs. He was getting $12 an hour when he was employed. Hardly an upper-class wage. Yet illegals were willing to do the same job for $8 an hour. So now if you factor in the nearly 20% hit on extra expenses, the employer would have to hire my neighbor for about $6.50 an hour. That is half of what he was making before the illegals killed the labor market.

Now sure, we can compete with the illegals if we wish to live with a dozen workers in a house. We can compete if we want to stop having our own transportation and having our employers drive us to work. We can live like slaves to the employers and have a crappy standard of living.

Sorry, I will have a revolution first.

Somebody put their thinking cap on today. Great post.

Americanfirst · #14 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viv

LMAO...nice to see you back AF. You were missed

Thank you, I have to do a few things, but I am back..

Americanfirst · #15 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognito

This is an outright lie. I have repeatedly explained to you that I do not employ illegals, nor do I "help" employ them, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

People that purchase goods from my business employ illegals. I have nothing to do with their employment.

BULL****! One summer between college semesters I got a job in construction down at the beach and there wasn't a single mexican on the crew. It wasn't hard for me to get the job either, despite the fact that I knew nothing at the time about building a house. They hired an inexperienced white boy for $14 an hour, the gods be praised.

I am not rich, try again.

More mindless psycho babble. :idiot:

Look man, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you have nothing to fuel your argument besides generalizations, conjectures, and I suspect apathy. I have no problem discussing your point of view, but if you're wanting to have a legitimate discussion you need to start typing more than broad generalizations, ridiculous assumptions about other posters, and "well I just think so's". If you are going to argue with people and take an anti-illegal immigration stance, you need to start looking up the facts about how their burdening our tax system, not bring up these arbitrary comments about, oh the poor white folks.

I don't need to look for the facts when the facts are here every day, I seen it I have been there, but if it make you feel better and richer, go on with the lies, you and your buddies save all kinds of money by hire and/or supporting illegals and thats a fact, btw I said poor BLACKS AND WHITES, not just whites, There many that come to my house, both black and white , and we have seen the samething for you and your buddies, and that is can be put into two words "carpet beggar" we (southern people) are embarrassed,ashamed, and insluted by people like you being in our part of the world..:idiot::idiot::idiot::idiot:

Americanfirst · #16 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

"childern come back to bite you in the butt one way or another." Hey! I found something I can agree with you about. But no matter what your politics are, this happens. It could be a bumper sticker: "Childern bite you in the butt, it happens."

And if you are a rabid anti illegal immigrant parent, your kid might become an immigration advocate just to rebel.

Not all childern will some maybe

Americanfirst · #17 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognito

We could start to vote for people who do not seek office for their own benefit. When it comes down to it, if our nation does fall apart, the blame can not be put on the government, or illegals, or anyone other than ourselves.

The only thing you said that was worth a crap, I do my part my turning in illegals or if need be running them off...

Americanfirst · #18 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderstorm Patriot

There are many reasons to oppose illegal workers. Let me give you one:

In 1990 the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that the construction industry was the fifth largest employer of Americans that are making a living wage. Current statistics show that the construction industry no longer provides a living wage. Analysis of this phenomenon shows that the catalyst to this change was hiring of illegal workers.

In truth Americans cannot compete on a level playing field when illegals are hired. There are several reasons:

Employers much pay a 6.2% Social Security premium on declared workers.

Employers must pay workman's compensation insurance in many states. In Michigan it averaged a 2.25% premium.

Legal workers can claim unemployment benefits which are almost guaranteed in seasonal work like construction. In Michigan that averaged about 11% of seasonal employment wages.

So add up these three factors and you a 19.45% expense to an employer for a legal worker that they can avoid with an illegal. now add in the more intangible things like potential for litigation and it gets even worse.

Now factor in that illegals often work for much less than an American can afford to. Illegals often share a house or apartment among eight or more workers. Their employers often provide transportation to the work site. They use the emergency room as their doctors office then stiff the hospital on the bills. These are all very real things that happen frequently.

I have a neighbor that did roofing for over a decade as a profession. He has not been able to work as a roofer for several years now. He found that illegals took the jobs. He was getting $12 an hour when he was employed. Hardly an upper-class wage. Yet illegals were willing to do the same job for $8 an hour. So now if you factor in the nearly 20% hit on extra expenses, the employer would have to hire my neighbor for about $6.50 an hour. That is half of what he was making before the illegals killed the labor market.

Now sure, we can compete with the illegals if we wish to live with a dozen workers in a house. We can compete if we want to stop having our own transportation and having our employers drive us to work. We can live like slaves to the employers and have a crappy standard of living.

Sorry, I will have a revolution first.

The supporters of the illegals already know this, and they are bringing about their own doom...But I am glad to see a smarter person than me, on this subject, thank you...

FRYandBENDER · #19 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Americanfirst

I don't need to look for the facts when the facts are here every day, I seen it I have been there, but if it make you feel better and richer, go on with the lies, you and your buddies save all kinds of money by hire and/or supporting illegals and thats a fact, btw I said poor BLACKS AND WHITES, not just whites, There many that come to my house, both black and white , and we have seen the samething for you and your buddies, and that is can be put into two words "carpet beggar" we (southern people) are embarrassed,ashamed, and insluted by people like you being in our part of the world..:idiot::idiot::idiot::idiot:

This is laughable at best, but I'll try to dissect the nonsense as best I can.

Quote:

I don't need to look for the facts when the facts are here every day, I seen it I have been there,

Yeah, I'm sure you have. My point is that if you are going to actually try to argue with people about your ....... geeze this is so useless...... if you're going to make a case against illegal immigration you need to be able to bring forth facts. Data like Thunderstorm Patriot posted. Not some half thought out drivel about how "you see it every day" or "they stealing stuff out from under us." You're making broad generalizations without offering any evidence. When you go on wild diatribes like you have, you only hurt the cause and not help it. People read it and think, geeze, I don't want to associate myself with these kind of people, what the hell are they even talking about? They'll simply think that you're a bitter ignorant red neck that simply doesn't like Mexicans.... remember earlier in the thread when you had to explain that your angst was not racially motivated?

Quote:

but if it make you feel better and richer, go on with the lies,

babble, babble, babble, babble, babble.

Quote:

you and your buddies save all kinds of money by hire and/or supporting illegals and thats a fact, btw I said poor BLACKS AND WHITES, not just whites, There many that come to my house, both black and white , and we have seen the samething for you and your buddies,

Me and my buddies, huh. Just what in the **** are you talking about. This is exactly what I was talking about. You're not making any sense at all. You're just making assumptions about my life and you don't even know who the **** I am. Dude, are you a democrat? That would be the icing on the cake if you were. Save your class warfare bull**** for someone else please. I'm sorry I have tried to excel and do well. I'm sorry I can do things better than other people. I'm sorry that people are willing to pay me more for my time because they know they'll make more money off of me. I'm sorry I went to school and applied myself rather than get my high school girlfriend pregnant like half the sorry ****s in this community. No, just kidding, I'm not sorry. I'm really glad that I made good decisions and have held myself responsible for them. Any how, quit guessing at my life dude, it will save a whole lot of time.

Quote:

and that is can be put into two words "carpet beggar" we (southern people) are embarrassed,ashamed, and insluted by people like you being in our part of the world.

This is probably my favorite part of your whole post. Its a good thing I wasn't drinking milk when I read this tripe. I will avoid the temptation to point out just how ridiculous your devotion to such absurdities as tradition and heritage are and go strait into the history lesson.

You called me a "carpet beggar" and since I've never chosen to beg either on or for carpets I can only assume that you mean a carpet bagger. Do you know what a carpet bagger was. Whatever definition you just said in your head is wrong. A carpet bagger was someone from the north who came down to the south during the reconstruction (I wasn't alive back then by the way) and supported freedmen (you know, newly freed slaves) and the republican re constructionists. It was also used later on to describe outsiders who move to a community/state/etc. and try to gain political influence/office/ etc.

Now then. I'm from up north you say. Wrong. I was born in Georgia and have lived in Dothan, AL since I was about 1-1/2 years old. I came down during reconstruction. Wrong.... for obvious reasons. I support free people, or the idea that slavery is wrong. Well you got me there. What a ****ing *** hole I must be. To think that people should be free. What the **** has the south come to?

Seriously guy, READ CAREFULLY. I oppose illegal immigration, but seemingly for fundamentally different reasons. I oppose any notion that would take sovereignty away from our nation. I oppose any notion that holds people who do not pay taxes to a different standard under the law than those who do. I oppose any notion that says my work and effort should go to benefit anyone other than myself, especially when the recipients are sending the money they use the government to steal from me to hoist up a foreign economy. I am against the notion of a foreign state exporting their criminals into mine. And probably the biggest problem I have with illegal immigration, or lets be real here, illegal immigrants themselves, is that I'll be damed if I'm going to sit back and listen to some jive *** dip **** yell at me about being a mean old *** hole while they neck **** my country till it is like the third world hell hole they came from, at least buy me dinner first. All this nonsense about them taking my job, or quite frankly your (or your kin's) job, is quite ludicrous. If you lose your job to someone who can not even communicate in the language that is essential to get a job in this country, then you might just want to pack it in and call it a life. I couldn't imagine being so pathetic.

Have a nice day.

Americanfirst · #20 (**permalink**) 02-18-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognito

We could start to vote for people who do not seek office for their own benefit. When it comes down to it, if our nation does fall apart, the blame can not be put on the government, or illegals, or anyone other than ourselves.

Because it's the carpetbeggars and the liberals are to blame.

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