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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2008, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
They were going to set up a system where an elite class would govern everyone else.

And in that respect they have succeeded, only the wealthy ever succeed at politics.
Ya... that was not the case.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2008, 11:42 PM
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Ya... that was not the case.
Ya....it was.
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2008, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
I think one problem is that America has become too democratic.........
I'm afraid the view from outside is that America is seen not as a democracy, but as an autocratic plutocracy. The rest of the world distrusts your political processes and fears the idiots you keep electing.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2008, 06:38 PM
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Well, we aren't a "good" democratic system, no. Real power is in the wealthy and powerful and their ability to manipulate the masses. In that sense, it's got many plutocratic qualities. The majority of people who are able to run for office are obscenely wealthy, because it requires obscene wealth to get anywhere. It's a barrier to entry for being taken seriously or heard. If you are poor, or an alternative party, you likely aren't going to get anywhere. In that sense, it's anti-democratic.

The problem with the "Democracy" aspect of the United States is that it's overvalued in American culture. We suffer from cultural populism and leftover Jacksonian "common-man" ideology combined with an almost never-ending election cycle where people are voting multiple times. Americans are almost always geared up for another election that lasts half the year. During this time, politicians pander to the "average person" with repetition of stump speeches, sound bytes, and propaganda, never really saying anything. Many other countries have far less voting, far less electioneering.

Moreover, Populism is generally very anti-intellectual. It's somewhat dichotomous. In the sense I dislike, the smarter you are, the more educated or informed you are, the worse off you are in elections. So many Americans dismiss expert opinions and believe that their individual voices on issues are just as good. Just look at this forum where people dismiss the climatological community's conclusions. They use their ignorance to elect ignorant or manipulative politicians that further their own rich interests at the expense of the masses who think they are capable.

Candidates are looked-down upon as elite and not "democratic-populist enough" if they are educated or intelligent. Bush, for instance, was elected largely on the grounds that he could appeal democratically to the "common man." People actually said "man, he's one of us." You get ahead the more you pander to the majority and can make yourself resemble them and the lowest common denominator in the United States. You actually are worse off if you are an expert or intelligent.

Our political system's not based on expertise either, but any old politician voting on issues without any form of peer review, expert qualifications in fields they are legislating, or rigorous professional organization standards. I think we should have stricter voting criteria, stricter standards for running for office unrelated to how much money you have, and stronger influence of experts.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Well, we aren't a "good" democratic system, no. Real power is in the wealthy and powerful and their ability to manipulate the masses.
We should do something about that.
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chookie View Post
I'm afraid the view from outside is that America is seen not as a democracy, but as an autocratic plutocracy. The rest of the world distrusts your political processes and fears the idiots you keep electing.
Well........many of us fear them as well.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:10 AM
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You can say that again.
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



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Old 08-22-2008, 02:04 AM
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and again
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:38 PM
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Last edited by Kender : 10-12-2008 at 09:56 PM.
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