Well first of all there isnt a draft so the connection loses some validity there.


And you totally miss the picture here. Iraqis and Afghans are a national identity not extremists or terrorist groups. Both wars were fought against political powers and extremist groups, not against Iraqis or Afghans. This is why I used to want to slap people in the face for saying "lets just bomb the iraqies and leave" even if they were joking.

Plus Vietnam was totally different from these wars.

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"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)

In an all-volunteer military, you've chosen to abdicate control over your person. You become a tool (in a neutral sense) of the State, and politicians who may not have the wisdom to employ their tools in intelligent ways.

Unless you can somehow conditionalize your military service and pick and choose which uses you are and aren't willing to be put to, this whole "conscientious objector" thing is a complete crock.

The military isn't the place to start having convictions. Armies don't function very well if the soldiers get to cherry-pick what they want to do.

Granted, I am not a military person. But, when you sign up, you sign up. No backsies. I am of the assumption that everyone in the military WANTED to be there, and has chosen to put his own beliefs aside, in favor of the military's.

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There is no sig. There never was a sig. The sig is a lie.

My view is when you sign up for an army, you sign up to protect and defend your country. Not to attack and steal others. So when your country does the latter you should object and refuse to fight. Of course the US/UK armies have no real immediate history of defensive wars and protecting their country - their wars are all about conquest and domination.


As for there being no draft, there may not be in the traditional sense, but there is in a way. Todays soldiers are conscripts of poverty, low prospects, high unemployment and desperation. They are often lured by promises of the chance to better themselves - to be educated, to learn sports, to see the world. They are not lured by the prospect of going around the world dominating and killing other poor people.

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Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"

That is so biased and incorrect. I mean, I know people see things that way, I cant hate people for what they think, but the picture painted here is the product of a prolonged hatred of the US.

There have been no wars of "conquest and domination" on the part of either the UK or US in the past 70 years. American expansionism ended totally around 1902--and after WWI imperialism got a huge slap in the face. Public support has in the last 100 years majorly backed anti-imperialist policies and UN policy has upheld that ever since WWII. That was about conquest.

Both nations--as well as a slough of others--have become involved in wars or conflicts they did not origninally intend to, but they were not for purposes of domination or creating "tributaries" or "protectorates". This reasoning is a myth not represented in any way by either British or American governments.

Popular media and anti-American/UK figures have painted the "imperialism" picture time and again, but their motivations are purposes are against the administration and the parties and people, and are merely political versus rational reasonings. We didnt steal any Oil or money in the middle east, say what you want.

Also, I think there are times when a nation not under attack should go to the aid of those who are in conflict. It would be defensive in that you are defending the lives of others--not specially those of your nationality.

__________________
"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)

That's a rather rosy view of American foreign policy you have there, Black.

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"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch

No, its an informed view.


Not a biased veiw based off of conspiracy theories.

__________________
"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)

It is based on definition of imperialism that is limited to territorial conquest.

__________________
"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch

with a total disregard of neocolonialism which more accurately describes US interventionism.

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Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"

Shhhh.

__________________
"Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-Joseph Welch

Oil again. And coming from "America is addicted to oil" we obviously want to make ourselves more addicted to it by being directly involved with its transactions?


I mean, we spent a trillion dollars for oil? If we wanted oil we could have bought oilfeilds for that price!

__________________
"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)