I have said that the IRA did do wrong. My "bias" is based on right and wrong. It was right for the IRA to do what it had to do. It was wrong for the British Government to treat it's "citizens" as ****ty as they did. For a British Government that "ruled the waves" you think they would allow elections happen with out influence and respect the wishes of the people in 1921. Did they? No.



Oh, so now you are British and not Scottish like you claim later on. Go figure... you didn't personally kill. But your UK Government did. No Irishman wants to kill a Scot. To say that shows you don't understand the conflict.



And thats why you are part of the UK.



You are part of the UK, your First Minister and the Parliament of Scotland has to take an Oath of Allegiance to the Crown. This means the laws that are passed which you may or may not enforce are done so with Allegiance to the Crown well established.



Westminster reserves the right to overrule the Scottish Parliament on all matters.

No, you have Atholl Highlanders which is a Pipes and Drums Regiment and a bunch of ceremonial units. The rest are part of the British Army. They give an Oath to the Queen, not Scotland. They are funded by the UK not Scotland. The Scottish Regiments of old do not exist anymore. They were all thrown into the Royal Regiment of Scotland.


I know their active in the UK Economy.. I am asking you is there a Scottish Economy?


No, you use the Pound sterling (GBP) all of your Scottish Banks are tied to the BoE (Bank of England).. you do not set your own interest rates, you don't print money that doesn't have the Queen on it.



They are not shared. The House of Commons decides. Do you understand that in the near future, your "Scottish" Parliament is getting rid of some seats in Westminster from 74 to 59. So you will have even less of a voice in the matter. That voting out members will not matter in the future as 59 votes isn't a big deal in the House of Commons.



How are they looking out for Scottish interest? Did Al-Qaeda try and bomb you before 9/11? No.. but what happen last summer? Al-Qaeda tried to bomb you. Why? Because Scotland as a member of the UK was "being imperialistic".

So how is that in the interest of Scotland? What you aren't understanding about how the UK (Crown) works and has worked for centuries is that the Queen and the House of Commons loves to give "rights" to those who they rule over. I.E. Having a Scottish Parliament is away to pacify the Scottish Nationalist out there, yet keep Scotland part of the United Kingdom as there was increasing grumblings. They did this same tactic in Ireland during the Catholic Emancipation and the Act of the Union in 1800 which allowed Catholics in Ireland the right to take seats in Westminster. The UK (which was Scotland and England at that time) was to keep those "rebels" (Catholics) happy after the 1798 rebellion (Wolfe Tone) as England didn't want Catholics to align with France.


No, I don't care about Scotland. The Irish tried to help you twice before and the Scots gave up.



Israel and the United States were part of British Commonwealth at some point. Israel was formed out of British Mandate of Palestine. Jews wanting an a Jewish state (aka Israel) bombed the King David Hotel among other things. The United States conducted "terrorist" activities against England (Boston Tea Party, American Revolution, aka War of Independence).. which we will be celebrating in 6 days for our 232nd year. Didn't assume, others read these topics as well (I know it as Rhodesia and I get looks for say it). But back to the point.. it doesn't matter what the conditions are. Its about Self-Determination. They wanted it, they got it. Now whatever happens in Rhodesia is their mess.



Yes, it does. Why do you think the title for the Queen of England is "Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"?? Scotland is part of Great Britain.

UK Parliament has express right to reject Scottish Parliament votes. The Scottish Parliament can not overrule UK Parliament votes. The UK Parliament can change the rules on what the Scottish Parliament can vote on at any point. England is part of the UK, they send more PMs to the UK Parliament then the Scots. Scotland is part of the UK making you and the English one in the same, aka British, as both of you are part of Great Britain. They have a vote of Scottish matters.

The Queen is English and she's all that matters. As you are part of the Constitutional Monarchy. Not a Democracy.



Umm.. We did that. We know how that worked out.

That is your opinion. I wonder if you are going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis that as well? Do they not have a case for violence when their nation is occupied?

Violence is a tool (weapon) of sort.



You mean the Unionist who rejected the Good Friday Agreement when they stepped away from the talks? As the Irish Nationalist were happy to talk and reach an agreement for power sharing and Home Rule as we saw it as a way to get more power. But since 1998 many of the issues that were suppose to be addressed have not been resolved and Sinn Fein has left many of us behind for money and power.





Well, you are British.. you are part of Great Britain and that makes you just as guilty in the eyes of those who see the Union Jack for what it is. Scotland is only powerless when Scots don't do anything to remove themselves from Union that has made them part of Great Britain. That means you clearly have to say no more Great Britain. No more filling seats in Westminster. No more sending Scotsmen off to Iraq, Afghanistan and at one point Northern Ireland to do the business of the Queen and Westminster.

If you do nothing to remove yourself, you are presumed guilty as you accept the title Great Britain.



Being Prime Minster doesn't make you the ruler. You still have a Queen, who is ENGLISH. You still have the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The Prime Minster has no power and only acts on behalf of the Queen and the Parliament. He or She can't actually do anything.

Your Scottish Parliament has no power outside the bounds set by the UK Parliament.


Tell that to 2 Para or those sitting in Croke Park on Nov 21st, 1920.



Oi. You think that's the easy road? So when those of Irish Catholic decent have majority out over the Ulster-Scots... and they decided to leave do you think the British Government will want that? No... Will they try and stop it? Of course.

This issue hasn't passed since 1921. The British thought it was over after that. Was it? No. Was it over after the Border Campaign? No.. Thought out Irish history, Irish people have always wanted Self-Rule. Look at every century since Brian Boru and you will see this.

The Irish Catholics don't have MPs in the UK Parliament. As standard set by the Parliament you have to swear and Oath to support the Queen. We reject it and they know it, so they keep it.




The Irish Government has every right to arrest him. The British Government does not.

Then they would have arrested him during The Troubles. They did not. He can't be touched by the British Government anymore as He is a member of Sinn Fein and helps keep the peace in South Armagh.



Violence = means to an end. Always been that way.

Well Humans are Animals.

Society is made up of Humans, Human Nature drives Humans to move forward. Thus, you have to accept the bad side of it as well. Would tourist go to Egypt if it weren't for Giza and the Sphinx? Would people list the 7 wonders of the world and even want to go see them? No, because those things would not exist without Human Nature. The Great Wall was built to keep out the Mongols, Giza and the Sphinx was built out of ego, so was the Taj Mahal.

Well, of course you think that.. because "Blood and Murder" didn't get you the results of a Scotland not connected to the United Kingdom. But I got a Republic of Ireland and The United States of America out of it. So excuse me for seeing how violence does work.

__________________
Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

Handlebars

"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87

[quote]Yes. I appreciate that the Irish had to stand up then. They were right to do so.

I appreciate those who want a republic and not the UK union want to stand up now and they should do that. Of course I think they should do it via the political system, not by regression to bombing and violence. By influencing public opinion through informing and persuasion. If they cannot persuade the majority that way, well...it's like debating here. If you have to lie or cheat or intimidate in support of a point, it is probably not a good point.

I really like you. But don't call me British again.

What do I not understand about the conflict? Scotland is on a hitlist for bombing. When bombing occurs, there is a high risk of murder along with it. Irishmen, then, do want to kill a Scot. I understand that is not good and will not enlist support from Scots. And you should understand it may stir up some hatred from them.

Now I support the theory and direction of the goals, but not the use of this "tool".

As are you.

And not disputed.

Lol...and I pray for the day when it attempts to use this right.

I'm aware of the restructuring of the ancient regiments, protested against it, not because I am interested in military but as a matter of principle. The current version still has its home here as I said. Also, you may know, the bulk of military training is based here, you cannot move for soldiers on exercise if you go up north at this time of year. Anyway, we retain the capability.

Yes, I admit I knew exactly what you meant but evaded. With anyone but you it would have worked.

I cannot inform on this, I have no knowledge. There is a Scottish economy, but perhaps not in the form that you mean. The powerhouse is London. However, you will be aware that it is not without Scottish participation.

They are shared, we are represented in the House of Commons. Look...read this and note the Irish association. These Scottish politicians are in there, getting things done and literally working very hard to change the world to how they want it. While Des Clarke and his mates have been getting all this done, what has been done for the Irish? What is being done for your cause?

How does it benefit you to have a rod up your a*rse, shouting "I won't swear allegiance..."? I admire the spirit, but it's not helping your people. Swallow it for the greater good and get into the political system and change it from the inside. Of course you would hate doing that and it would be seen as selling out by the neanderthals, but it will get your people farther faster and is that not your aim? The establishment has not played fair with you, abuse it in reverse by pretending to conform and taking what you need...

It could be another tool...at least...?

The Minister for Defence ...


And we have protested that by voting them out of here. As the rest of the UK will do on General Election day.

But there is more to it than that. You have a war-oriented mentality, I see, but I refer to the whole range of other everyday things. It is always going to be better to have a voice at the decision-making meetings and we have that.

Thanks again for assuming me inept. Yes, I am aware. It's called politics. That is pretty obvious sometimes and the royals have a habit of crowd-pleasing. Silly things currently like Anne being allocated as the Scottish royal, Charles to Wales and she comes up here and sings the "Flower of Scotland", the Scottish national anthem, in front of everyone at rubgy internationals. They are practised in manipulation. Btw, my techie was awared the MBE last week. Just a little gimmick they use as part of what you highlight.

However, the leader of the Scottish Nationalists is extremely astute and has taken every chance to progress his cause via his position in the Scottish Parliament. It may or may not have been their aim to pacify (although as it was instituted by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, both Scots, I don't accept that) but it will be used as the platform to secure independence and is a gift in that respect, as it has eradicated the fears many Scots had that Scotland is not capable of home rule.

F you then. The Irish probably did not understand the problem.
But seriously, I don't know what you refer to and if you want to expand I'd be interested to learn.

For how much longer? It is such a mess, internationals may step in to resolve it. Israel is no better, it is more of a horrible mess and is affecting the rest of the world.

How are either of those desirable? And what would actually happen in Ireland if you do secure a republic? Will the catholics be protected? How will that pan out? No, I am asking. I don't know what is likely to happen there, because there is still the issue of the sectarian divide.

?? She is the Queen of the United Kingdom. She is Queen of Scotland and lives here. She is Queen of England. So what? She has many titles, that does not convert to England ruling Scotland.

Nice try, but no banana this time. You know very well I refer to the fact that Scotland has a different Parliament for local government and England does not.

Scotland votes and controls Scottish matters. England's matters are still voted on and controlled by the House of Commons, which means Scottish politicians vote on those and affect them. English MPs do not vote on the Scottish matters and do not affect them.

It is an unfair system for England and they are not happy about it. It means we have more power over them in this respect.

The political system is democratic. The Queen's mother was Scottish, she lives here and this is her home. England is her office.

Oh, you should give up then and just shoot people instead. How did you do it? You say your politicians cannot access power because they will not swear allegiance. Do I misunderstand that, or it happened at a different point?
Get back in and do it again until you find a way to make it work for ya? Like the rest of us...I mean what makes you different? *You are never to compromise your principles to get the right end result? You are a Ron Paul politician then, cannot compromise, have to be always with the principles and the ramrod back and it is all a load of p***, if you want to change you might have to work on that and extend your vision.

A big question. And a different one. All right, you got me. But I will come to it when addressing the US attitude...below...

Lol...you are a tool... Seriously, I understand you have to make use of many strategies to secure your aims and those aims are valid. I just could wish that violence were off the table, for obvious reasons.

Sold out by your own. How will you manage to resolve those issues if left to your own devices? You cannot maintain solidarity as is.

But did they leave you behind or that is how you see it? I refer to this attitude, which may relate to those Sinn Fein politicians* I understand they seem to have sold out, but are they not still working for the original aims regardless, maybe just not in the format some people would like to see? They are politicians and must compromise, is it not that some sectors are stuck in the past and wanting a more aggressive (but possibly inappropriate) hard line, which these politicians are unable to display?

I don't know, but politicians rarely make everyone happy...you should know that.

I am going to swear at you now. I am Scottish. As your people are Irish. Scots are doing plenty to remove themselves, they are just not as neanderthal in their approach and there is nothing wrong with that. More is achieved by working from within the system than not having a voice. You tackle it your way (which may seem wrong to others) and Scots tackle it their way. We should not divide, we have the same aims.

Already pointed out she has at least half Scot in her veins. Look, the Queen is a figurehead and you know it. The UK is governed by Parliament. The Queen has nominal powers and you know very well she cannot use them to prevent the PM from doing any single thing. I am embarrassed for you that you used this feeble argument

Yet...

They are instituting all kinds of improvements funded by the common tax fund, which the UK Parliament would prefer not to have. Free university fees, prescription charges etc...

I do.

Sigh...compromise temporarily, to gain the power you need to defend yourselves. They know it and they keep it...outwit them by accepting it and getting past their obvious ploy?

Very good. You have him, we have Stakeknife, everyone has someone they'd like to get. But if they were as heinous as you say, and if they really wanted him, he would be dead.

Defeatist. This does not mean we cannot find a better way, another level. I hope you know that. And I hope that is where we are heading, not back to the caves.

Murdering innocent people (or even those who you consider not to be innocent) is not moving forward. It is a retrograde step. There are many ways to skin a cat, it is better for humanity to use non-violent ways IMO, but some do not appear to have the patience or intelligence to "move forward" in this way.
It is easier to follow ego and indulge competitive aggression than to engage the brain, well I think that is male-oriented, not humans.

It is not working for the rest of the world. This "violence does work" has carried over into EDIT] US foreign policy where you are way too offensive and always pushing in and intervening where you should not be. Your aggressive attitude is way out of line in that way and it is a hangover from how your country was claimed in the first place.

It worked for you those times. Hundreds of years ago, when that was the only option. There are other ways now to achieve such aims. Non-violent ways.

There is no excuse for using violence in the Irish situation, it is not even remotely acceptable as there is a political system in place for you to use and you will not do so because you let them keep you out over the use of what? An oath? If they were shooting you for approaching the Parliament, I might understand it, but that is the silliest reason not to be in power. Get over it and get into power and enlist political will through the EU or such to get the oath tabled as an exception for the Irish if it means that much to you.

You can get your needs met politically without murdering anyone...if that is what you want.

Scottish Soldiers patrolled Northern Ireland and were some of the most hate bunch out of the British Army (Blackwatch) and they did it for the Crown but thats what happens when you carry out the order of the Queen. Stop carrying out the orders for the Crown.





No, I am not British. Never have been and never will be. I do not come from Scotland, Wales or England.




It'll happen.



So, no you do not have Scottish Soldiers fighting for Scotland. You have Scots fighting for the UK.



Thats because you know I am right.

Then you do not have your own Economy. You have a UK economy.



I have a country called the Republic of Ireland, which I don't have to "fight" with the Brits to get what I want. I already have 3/4ths of what I want.. how much of Scotland is defended by your own Scottish Army? You were saying?

1. I won't have to sell out. 2. It shows I don't bow down to anybody. Blue Blood or not.

Swallow what? The BS of the Crown for another 8 centuries? Nah, I'll pass.

Those "neanderthals" defeated the UK. In 1800 to 1915 we got nowhere. We got home rule and it was taken away. In 1916-1921.. we got 3/4th of Ireland. Tell me what got us further again?



So the rest of the UK is going to vote in who again? More Labour Party members? Cause if they don't, old Gordie is gone.

Always the peace maker?



Read up on the Battle of the Boyne. Also read up on Robert the Bruce.



So, if all countries allow the Palestinians and the Israelis to talk on their own and address those issues without influence, I am sure they can reach an agreement.

There is only sectarian divide in Northern Ireland because the British Government took one group and said you are better then these people.



She is of German decent but the House gained control via the Normans. The House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (renamed the House of Windsor) via the House of Wettin by marriage. Your future King will be a Mountbatten - Windsor (Wettin).



Well, my DNA says some of my ancestors are Basque but it doesn't make me Basque now does it?



We don't buy into Royal Family crap?

I'll compromise with fellow Irish or Americans dealing with Irish or American issues. I will not compromise my principles for a group of people/Government who think they have a right to a country that never should have been in. Once you recognize that, you recognize their rule. I do not recognize their rule.



Its not a different one. Its the same issue.




We maintained solidarity when we all rejected British "rights" to Ireland. When Sinn Fein recognized it, it only solidified British rule. That is the complete opposite of what we want.

If they were working for Irish aims, they would have rejected Policing by the British Government as the RUC = PSNI. Sinn Fein had no problem showing a hardline 20 years ago, but secretly talked to the British Government. I expect them to take a hardline all the time.




The PM works for the Queen. The PM is the go between. Thats why Gordie wants the House to get rid of some of powers he has. I.E. like making war.


So, Ohio does things like that, but the Federal Government still controls us.






Oh, you mean Steakknife? Big deal. If old Scapi sets foot in Ireland again, He knows it's the death of him. Just like it was for Denis Donaldson.




How can you skin a cat humanely? The cat still has to die right?


So a mother would not use her instinct to protect her child? She would not kill for her child when it become a matter of life or death?



I don't want to mettle in Foreign Affairs that do not pertain to me. But being aggressive is not a bad thing when you want others out of your affairs. Nobody in Ireland wants to rule the UK. They just want you out of Irish Affairs. Your analogy here does not work. As you are trying to compare Offensive Aggression with Defensive Aggression (action vs reaction).

Uh, last I checked it happen in South Africa little less then 24 years ago. Happen in the Balkans during the 90s.

Why would I, a person who rejects the notion of British rule in Ireland as acceptable and reject the idea of the EU just as much as the 54% (Majority) of Irish, go to these bodies of Government and enlist the help of them?

That negates the idea of rejecting them. As you are using their form of Government, which is what they want, to get an idea that a bunch of other EU countries who have not defended Irish rights since the founding of the EU (EEC).

You are telling me to act like the dog chasing it's tail.. never catching it.

__________________
Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

Handlebars

"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87