Dublin-Monaghan Bombings - Page 2 - Political Fever

leviathon435 · #11 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosco

the brits when used as a term actually refers to the British government and of course the milirtary. I understand your position though mate. So Ill specify henceforth

Thanks mate, I'm sure you understand how I feel when think I've been lumped in with the British government.

Comrade Joe · #12 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakej

Any links to the SAS being involved?

Quote:

Numerous intelligence agencies were at work in Northern Ireland by 1974—the RUC Special Branch, Army Intelligence, the Special Air Service (SAS) in the guise of the 14th Intelligence Unit, along with both MI6 and MI5. These often competing agencies attempted to share some of their intelligence through a Director and Co-ordinator of Intelligence, while all the agencies reported to their own British based headquarters—all of whom ultimately reported to various British government ministers. All were running agents.

At the same time, the boundaries between the loyalist paramilitary groups and state forces such as the RUC and the UDR were very porous, with numerous individuals holding dual membership. Much of the military and police hierarchy considered the loyalist paramilitaries as valuable allies.

Barron considers the evidence supporting the view that security forces directly assisted the Dublin and Monaghan attacks. He claims that the only source of allegations that an SAS Brigadier and Captain participated in the attacks came, in 1983, from French journalist Roger Faligot. Barron insists that his inquiry has found no evidence to support this claim.

More substantial information of collusion by the armed forces centres around leading loyalist Billy Hanna. He was regularly visited by soldiers, who even took him fishing. Other reports, from journalist Joe Tiernan, suggested that he was regularly visited by plainclothes officers. According to Tiernan, faced with difficult questions in the preparation of an operation, Hanna was wont to clear his unit’s action with his army contacts. By implication, an operation as huge as the Dublin one could only have been carried out with approval from above.

Barron rejects the assertion that the complexity of the attacks and the type of explosive necessarily imply direct practical assistance from the military. His conclusions are generally weak and conditional, which must reflect ongoing sensitivities in the Irish political establishment. But he does find the following:

* That finding that members of the security forces had been involved in the bombings is “neither fanciful or absurd.”

* Although the loyalist groups were capable of the bombing on their own, “this does not rule out the involvement of individual RUC, UDR or British Army members.

* A high level cover-up cannot be ruled out, but “it is unlikely that any such decision would ever have been committed to writing.”

* Neither would any written records have been made of advance warnings.

* The security forces in the North knew quickly who carried out the attack on the basis of good intelligence.

* Some of those suspected had relationships with British intelligence and/or RUC Special Branch, and therefore information supplied to the Garda was compromised.

Having made these points, however, he insists that the inference that the bombings were state sanctioned “is not sufficiently strong. It does not even follow as a matter of probability. Unless further information comes to hand, such involvement must remain a suspicion. It is not proven.”

Commenting on the report, Margaret Unwin of the Justice for the Forgotten group said that its publication would strengthen demands for the full public inquiry as long demanded by the bombs’ victims.

Ireland: Barron report confirms British collusion in 1974 Dublin bombings

Finny · #13 (**permalink**) 06-21-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leviathon435

Thanks mate, I'm sure you understand how I feel when think I've been lumped in with the British government.

Sure, but you can change that. You are a Brit, as I am an American. What our Governments do reflect on us no matter what.

Brits are British and you are British. The term comes from Britannia given by the Romans for the area that you live (Wales and England) . As the people from Britannia were know as the Britons.

Caledonia was given its name because the Romans give it that name to refer to the area above Hadrian's Wall. Those tribes were called Caledonii.

Comrade Joe · #14 (**permalink**) 06-21-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finny

Sure, but you can change that. You are a Brit, as I am an American. What our Governments do reflect on us no matter what.

Brits are British and you are British. The term comes from Britannia given by the Romans for the area that you live (Wales and England) . As the people from Britannia were know as the Britons.

Caledonia was given its name because the Romans give it that name to refer to the area above Hadrian's Wall. Those tribes were called Caledonii.

I think his point is when you refer to brits you really mean the british government. They are two completely seperate entities. Both me and Levi oppose the British government as much as any foreigner so it is likely to piss us off to be blamed for their shortcomings.

Finny · #15 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade Joe

I think his point is when you refer to brits you really mean the british government. They are two completely seperate entities. Both me and Levi oppose the British government as much as any foreigner so it is likely to piss us off to be blamed for their shortcomings.

No, I refer to all of you. You are a Brit, you are just as much to blame for everything your Government has done since your birth. You allow your Government to do such things, thus you are guilty as well. Just as I share blame in what my Government has done since my birth.

You can't pick and choose what you like and don't like about your Country or your Government. It's an all or nothing kind of thing.

Viv · #16 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

However evidence has emerege that indicates that the bombings were actually planned and carried out by British Army special forces the SAS. This means that this was an act of war upon the Republic of Ireland and of course an act of State terror. Of course it also adds to the hypocrasy of Britians participation in the "War on Terror" when they have been responsible for terrorists atrocities themselves.

but:

Quote:

Barron considers the evidence supporting the view that security forces directly assisted the Dublin and Monaghan attacks. He claims that the only source of allegations that an SAS Brigadier and Captain participated in the attacks came, in 1983, from French journalist Roger Faligot. Barron insists that his inquiry has found no evidence to support this claim.

Where do you get from the second quote that the bombings were planned and carried out by the British Army and how do you manage to credit them with total control and planning of this act?

"Assisted"..."participated"..."allegations"... on the word of one reporter and the author insists no evidence supports the claim?

It's conclusive to you? It's a bit of a stretch from here...

In fact, it is just bias, isn't it.

Comrade Joe · #17 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finny

No, I refer to all of you. You are a Brit, you are just as much to blame for everything your Government has done since your birth. You allow your Government to do such things, thus you are guilty as well. Just as I share blame in what my Government has done since my birth.

You can't pick and choose what you like and don't like about your Country or your Government. It's an all or nothing kind of thing.

Get real man. One man cannot stop government policy. My only power is to not vote for them in the farcical bourgeoise "democratic" elections. You dont understand that the outcome of such elections are already decided beforehand - that is how capitalism works. Whatever you vote for you still get capitalist imperialism.

I thought a libertarian would be against collective guilt - it jus goes to show how confused adherents to such philosophies really are.

leviathon435 · #18 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finny

No, I refer to all of you. You are a Brit, you are just as much to blame for everything your Government has done since your birth. You allow your Government to do such things, thus you are guilty as well. Just as I share blame in what my Government has done since my birth.

You can't pick and choose what you like and don't like about your Country or your Government. It's an all or nothing kind of thing.

That's not true, I am not responsible for what my government is doing and has done, since before I can remember I've been on demos for various things and at 17 I'm already involved in local government as much as possible to try and change government policy. I've never had the chance to vote directly so I can't change the government in that way that but it's certainly not my fault that my government does what it does.

Finny · #19 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goz

but:
Where do you get from the second quote that the bombings were planned and carried out by the British Army and how do you manage to credit them with total control and planning of this act?

"Assisted"..."participated"..."allegations"... on the word of one reporter and the author insists no evidence supports the claim?

It's conclusive to you? It's a bit of a stretch from here...

In fact, it is just bias, isn't it.

These are facts with in the Republican community. These bombings happened by the assistance of the Brits. There was no way for the UVF, UFF or the UDA at the time of the bombing to go south of the border (into the Republic of Ireland) without assistance from the Brits.

The SAS was caught in the area of south of Crossmaglen by the Garda many times during this time period.

Finny · #20 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comrade Joe

Get real man. One man cannot stop government policy. My only power is to not vote for them in the farcical bourgeoise "democratic" elections. You dont understand that the outcome of such elections are already decided beforehand - that is how capitalism works. Whatever you vote for you still get capitalist imperialism.

I thought a libertarian would be against collective guilt - it jus goes to show how confused adherents to such philosophies really are.

Oi, listen well..

Capitalism, Socialism, or Communist.. they election is decided for you. The only way you have a say is to stand the fvck up. Which you don't do.

No, as a Libertarian I strive to better my Government so we are all not guilty, but have a COLLECTIVE opinion in such matters, by removing the power of a few and give it to the people. Where our local government has more power then the State and the State has more power then the Federal.

My believe if we followed that concept the people will be heard.

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