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History Discuss all history here!

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Donkey Jote View Post
If you don't like the forum, then leave.
Oh, should I go to WA like you did?

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Originally Posted by Donkey Jote View Post
As for whether or not Mohammed existed, I think it is rather most likely that he did. Even if the Qu'ran were the only source available that suggested his existence (it's not), it wouldn't mean that he didn't exist at all.
What are the other sources that you speak of that refer to Mohammad's existance besides the Koran? Rather than just referring to them, maybe you could add them as quotes or links so we can all understand what you are talking about. You could think he existed all you want. Do you still leave your teeth under the pillow for the tooth fairy too?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:17 PM
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AD, after reading through all the posts, Levi had a perfectly valid point in his first response to your OP. And you (or Bourne) whining about it won't change the facts.

The article you've sited in your OP is niether a non-biased source nor is it even remotely rational or reasonable in its discussion of the subject. It really is garbage. I wouldn't piss on it if it was on fire.

now then...

Did Muhammad really exist?

who knows? it's a good (and intriguing) question. Right up there with did Chirst live? or did Sidartha Gatauma?

all good questions which can lead to an interesting debate.

But you've derailed your own thread by starting it with an article that makes any, and I mean ANY, arguement for the existence of Muhammad look like fruitcake, crazy Islamic propaganda.

besides, can't Levi voice his own opinions without you accusing him of persecuting you due to his new MOD 'power'? or are you just looking for a conspiracy?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer View Post
Oh, should I go to WA like you did?
Sure if you want. I don't give a damn what you do.

Does somebody have a problem with me being a member there?
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What are the other sources that you speak of that refer to Mohammad's existance besides the Koran? Rather than just referring to them, maybe you could add them as quotes or links so we can all understand what you are talking about. You could think he existed all you want. Do you still leave your teeth under the pillow for the tooth fairy too?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2008, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Donkey Jote View Post
Sure if you want. I don't give a damn what you do.

Does somebody have a problem with me being a member there?
Your link only proves that Mohammad may not have existed, at least in reference to other writings besides the Koran.
"Many, but not all, scholars accept the accuracy of the earliest biographies, though their accuracy is unascertainable."

Unasertainable means not able to be ascertained. That means that there is no real proof. Good point, DJ

Last edited by Lumara : 05-04-2008 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:41 AM
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There's more credibility to the existence of Muhammad than the reported Christ figure...
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:46 AM
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There's more credibility to the existence of Muhammad than the reported Christ figure...
In what way? Putting aside faith, where is the eyewitness documentation that Mohammad existed?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer View Post
Tell us Levi, why do you think this article is "pro-christian propaganda" and the equivalent of "used toilet paper"? I am curious to hear your logic.
Ok, let's look at the very first part of it:
Quote:
The Bible often falls under careful scrutiny; almost every verse is challenged for authenticity, archaeological cross verification and contradictions (to which it has not yet fallen victim)
LIE Christian propoganda

I could run through the whole essay and bring out things like its attack of Islam for not wanting to portray their prophet (PBUH) being more proof of its usefullness being equivalent to that of used toilet paper. I could also run through the rest of the posted article and pull out all the crap (an apt word given the comparison I'm making) or i could just tell you the titles of some other articles posted by the author on "Associated Content" which include:
The Liberal Stranglehold on the English Language
Captured Al-Qaeda Document Reveals Egyptian Born Leader's Status
AC First Look: Multinational Force in Iraq Blasts Back at Al-Qaeda Number 2
Did You Know Terrorists Don't Care What We Do to Our Freedoms?
Religion is Not Required for Morality, but Why Are Atheists so Gosh Darn Amoral?
What Has the Israel-Palestinian Issue Taught Us About the U.N.? Don't Bother Playing by the Rules
Citizens, Ex-Muslims & More React to Organization of the Islamic Conference

You know what? There are even more articles that prove this author is just a biased right-wing Christian with very little thought for the other points of view.

But you'll just ignore this anyway and complain about me being a biased mod so I don't know why I bother.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008, 06:21 AM
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The first most important thing to point out is that there are no images of Muhammad anywhere in the world. Indeed, the vigor with which Muslims battle to prevent Muhammad imagery don't do justice to the historicity of this figure. The closest thing to images are outlines of human figures with absent faces.
This statement shows the author is ignorant of the fact that images of the Prophet(saw) were banned to avoid the Christian error of worshiping the Prophet instead of God. The prohibition on making and worshiping graven images dates way back to the 10 commandments. Something that appeared to get lost along the way as the Christians meddled with their religion. Especially the Catholics with their Churches filled with images and statues with places set out to kneel before and pray to them.
The Muslims simply did not want to copy the Pagans. Muhammed (saw) was just a messenger of God and so is not to be made into a figure of worship.

Quote:
Meanwhile, there is very little secular record that he actually existed as a person.
Well there is his grave with his body in it in Medina, loads of artifacts, and the foundations of his house in Mecca. But lets not let physical evidence of his existence get in the way of the opinion piece shall we?

Quote:
Another issue that historians struggle with is Mecca. Indeed, the city exists now, but there are very few actual records to date that prove that there was a major site of religion and international trade as the Quran and Muslims claims. Indeed, there has been no non-Muslim record of a major site of Asian trade known as Mecca existing, calling into deep question the existence of such a place as it is detailed in Muhammad's life.
Yeah ok, burn the history books and rewrite them. This article really is about as useful as used toilet paper.

I see it as just an opinion piece with no basis in reality.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008, 06:24 AM
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Hey Jafar, PBUH I know, what is SAW?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2008, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Donkey Jote View Post
Hey Jafar, PBUH I know, what is SAW?
The arabic way of saying it.
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