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Old 04-22-2008, 10:43 AM
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Default Che's Message Lives On.

Today more than ever, even at the time of writing, Che's words are of significance. From identifying the root of the worlds problems "Yankee Imperialism", to revolutionary tacticts, to his message of love - his message could save the world from the hell endured by so many. It is time people on mass take this message on board.

I start with his identification of the cause of most suffering.

"Our every action is a battle cry against imperialism, and a battle hymn for the people's unity against the great enemy of mankind: the United States of America. Wherever death may surprise us, let it be welcome, provided that this, our battle cry, may have reached some receptive ear, that another hand may be extended to wield our weapons, and that other men be ready to intone our funeral dirge with the staccato singing of the machine guns and new battle cries of war and victory."

And next his definition of the revolutionary motive.

"Why does the guerrilla fighter fight? We must come to the inevitable conclusion that the guerrilla fighter is a social reformer, that he takes up arms responding to the angry protest of the people against their oppressors, and that he fights in order to change the social system that keeps all his unarmed brothers in ignominy and misery"

Attacking the idiocy of nationalism and enhancing the internationalist spirti.

"There are no boundaries in this struggle to the death. We cannot be indifferent to what happens anywhere in the world, for a victory by any country over imperialism is our victory; just as any country's defeat is a defeat for all of us."

And for those in denial of the existence of imperialism.

"As long as imperialism exists, it will, by definition, exert its domination over other countries. Today that domination is called neocolonialism"

This provides insight into the misunderstanding many nationalists have regarding independance.

"Each time a country is freed, we say, it is a defeat for the world imperialist system, but we must agree that real liberation or breaking away from the imperialist system is not achieved by the mere act of proclaiming independence or winning an armed victory in a revolution. Freedom is achieved when imperialist economic domination over a people is brought to an end"

What Communism requires to work.

"We are doing everything possible to give labor this new status of social duty and to link it on the one side with the development of a technology which will create the conditions for greater freedom, and on the other side with voluntary work based on a Marxist appreciation of the fact that man truly reaches a full human condition when he produces without being driven by the physical need to sell his labor as a commodity. Man still needs to undergo a complete spiritual rebirth in his attitude towards his work, freed from the direct pressure of his social environment, though linked to it by his new habits. That will be communism."

He also was ahead of his time in realising the failures of certain communist movements.

"I am not interested in dry economic socialism. We are fighting against misery, but we are also fighting against alienation. One of the fundamental objectives of Marxism is to remove interest, the factor of individual interest, and gain, from people's psychological motivations. Marx was preoccupied both with economic factors and with their repercussions on the spirit. If communism isn't interested in this too, it may be a method of distributing goods, but it will never be a revolutionary way of life"

And as so many are confused with regards to defining socialism, i feel this quote must be included.

"There is no other definition of socialism valid for us than that of the abolition of the exploitation of man by man"
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"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"
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Old 04-22-2008, 02:56 PM
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He's much loved in Cuba. Everywhere you go you see pictures of Che in the windows of private houses, cafes, shops, public buildings (of course). In a way it's sad that his image (the famous photograph at the ship explosion) has been trivialised in the West, there's a lot more to Che than a single image.

If you haven't seen "Motorcycle Diaries" then I think you would enjoy it.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by diuretic View Post
He's much loved in Cuba. Everywhere you go you see pictures of Che in the windows of private houses, cafes, shops, public buildings (of course). In a way it's sad that his image (the famous photograph at the ship explosion) has been trivialised in the West, there's a lot more to Che than a single image.

If you haven't seen "Motorcycle Diaries" then I think you would enjoy it.
You know i've had that sitting here for months now and still not watched it. I keep saying i'm going to and never quite get round to it. I will have to watch it over the weekend i think - this time i mean it
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"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:09 PM
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Guevara has long ago eclipsed the person that he actually was. He is practically sanctified throughout Latin America by the average person. His less-then-savory aspects don't really matter anymore, which is what the people who criticize the adulation of him don't understand.
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:48 PM
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Guevara has long ago eclipsed the person that he actually was. He is practically sanctified throughout Latin America by the average person. His less-then-savory aspects don't really matter anymore, which is what the people who criticize the adulation of him don't understand.
History does that to people. I mean look at the Reagan fetish that conservative Americans have. If Reagan is examined closely you can see the reality but that won't turn an American conservative, they're convinced Reagan was a wonderful president and you know, they're entitled to that view, however wrong it is.

Che is iconic and I don't mean just the image. What he fought for and what he fought against have become iconic and the message is spreading throughout Latin America. Paraguay is the latest country to throw off the yoke of the Right. Sure there's a bit of Messianic fervor, but that's probably embedded in us humans, but ordinary folks intuitively know that what Che stood for is best for them.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:06 PM
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Guevara was a murderer and a maniac.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade Joe View Post
You know i've had that sitting here for months now and still not watched it. I keep saying i'm going to and never quite get round to it. I will have to watch it over the weekend i think - this time i mean it

Try to get an unabridged copy of the diaries instead Comrade or read Guerilla Warfare. Fascinating book.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Nicod3mus View Post
Guevara was a murderer and a maniacal dictator.
I dont see how he could have been a dictator. I believe you should educate yourself upon the man. Also he was a revolutionary soldier fighting for the emancipation of the proletariate and the working class. For the equality of man. This is a murderer? But yet those who invade Iraq to occupy and plunder its natural resources that being suprise suprise Oil are not? Thos who arm terrorist groups in southern Sudan and Darfur to fight for there Indeendance because they are oild rich are not??

You Sir in my honest and humble opinion are guilty of Double standards
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:14 PM
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I meant to say he put a maniacal dictator in power...it was typing error...and yeah he murdered people throughout his various careers from the San Carlos de La Cabaña prison to central america. There are hundreds of eye witnesses to his outright shooting of political prisoners personally.

I agree with 90% of his political and philosophical views but personally executing innocent people and so called "political prisoners" is not my idea of something a idealog would do.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
I dont see how he could have been a dictator. I believe you should educate yourself upon the man. Also he was a revolutionary soldier fighting for the emancipation of the proletariate and the working class. For the equality of man. This is a murderer? But yet those who invade Iraq to occupy and plunder its natural resources that being suprise suprise Oil are not? Thos who arm terrorist groups in southern Sudan and Darfur to fight for there Indeendance because they are oild rich are not??

You Sir in my honest and humble opinion are guilty of Double standards

I never said I support the war in Iraq or anything like that....do I think president george w bush is personally responsible for murdering innocent people....very possibly yes. Do I have hundreds of eye witnesses to him shooting hundreds of people??? Nope..although that has nothing to do with che guevara or this topic.
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