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Old 02-02-2008, 10:40 PM
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Great American History -

Causes of the Civil War: A Balanced Answer
by Gordon Leidner of Great American History
What caused the American Civil War? It is amazing that even today, nearly 150 years after the Civil War started, there is passionate debate regarding the "cause" of the Civil War. Consider this:

It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.

However, equally true is the statement: "Had there been no slavery, there would have been no war. Had there been no moral condemnation of slavery, there would have been no war." (This was made by Sydney E. Ahlstrome, in his monumental study of religion in America A Religious History of the American People, Yale University Press,1972, on p. 649)

The message here is that the reasons a nation goes to war are usually various and complicated. The American Civil War is no exception.

Background
The curious thing is that although slavery was the moral issue of the nineteenth century that divided the political leaders of the land, the average American had very little interest in slaves or slavery. Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never even seen a slave.

But political leaders on both sides were very interested in slaves and slavery. The South's economic system was based upon cotton--and slavery. The political leaders of the South, such as Robert Barnwell Rhett of South Carolina, William Lowndes Yancey of Alabama, The Fire Eaters and Robert Augustus Toombs of Georgia, recognized that if the South lost her slaves (i. e., had to pay slaves wages similar to what white laborers were paid), her entire socio-economic system would probably collapse. Hence any political action that took place that threatened the slavery system of the South received the undivided attention of the South's political leaders, many of whom were themselves slave owners.

Political leaders in the North were much more divided about the slavery issue. Many of the powerful abolitionists, such as William L. Garrison of Massachusetts, were either religious leaders or newspaper editors. A fewer number of abolitionsits, such as Senator Edwin Sumner of Massachusetts and Salmon P. Chase of Ohio, were politicians. The north had equally powerful political leaders such as democratic Senator Stephen A. Douglas who were either indifferent towards or supportive of slavery.

Today we recognize slavery as a moral issue. But in the early nineteenth century, it was seen as an economic issue first, moral issue second. A series of legislative actions, most notably the Missouri Compromise of 1820, had been enacted by Congress to put limits on the propagation of slavery, but compromise with northern and southern interests was always kept in mind. The South had an economic interest in the spread of slavery to the new territories so that new slave states could be created and the South's political influence would remain strong. The North had an interest in limiting the spread of slavery into the new territories for both purposes of controlling Southern political power AND support of the moral issue.

Up until the middle 1800s, slavery was kept as a background issue that remained largely the concern of political leaders of the South, and abolitionists of the North. But in 1854, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, sponsored by Democrat Stephen A. Douglas, brought slavery to the forefront of national attention. Kansas-Nebraska eliminated the old Missouri Compromise (which in 1820 had designated areas of the new territories in which slavery could and could not be introduced) and made it possible for slavery to be introduced in virtually any new territory. Douglas called the concept of allowing residents of the territories to decide the slavery issue for themselves Popular Sovereignty. Kansas-Nebraska caused a firestorm to errupt in the North, awakening many people to the danger of the potential spread of slavery. Moderate politicians such as Abraham Lincoln became active in the cause of fighting both the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the spread of slavery.


Conclusion

Although the majority of the American people-- including many moderate politicians like Abraham Lincoln--wanted to avoid Civil War and were content to allow slavery to die a slow, inevitable death, the most influential political leaders of the day were not. On the southern side, "fire-eaters" like Rhett and Yancey were willing to make war to guarantee the propagation of their "right" to own slaves. On the northern side, abolitionists like John Brown and Henry Ward Beecher of Connecticut were willing to make war in order to put an immediate end to the institution of slavery.

These leaders, through either words or action, were able to convince the majority that it was necessary to go to war, and in order to convince them they justified the war with arguments that only indirectly referred to the subject of slavery (i.e., state rights et. al.).

Southern politicians convinced their majority that the North was threatening their way of life and their culture. Northern politicians convinced their majority that the South, if allowed to secede, was really striking a serious blow at democratic government. In these arguments, both southern and northern politicians were speaking the truth--but not "the whole truth." They knew that to declare the war to be a fight over slavery would cause a lot of the potential soldiers of both sides to refuse to fight.

So-was the war about slavery? Of course. If there had been no disagreement over the issue of slavery, the South would probably not have discerned a threat to its culture and the southern politicians would have been much less likely to seek "their right to secede." But was it only about slavery? No. It was also about the constitutional argument over whether or not a state had a right to leave the Union, and--of primary concern to most southern soldiers--the continuation of antebellum southern culture. Although the majority of Southerners had little interest in slaves, slavery was a primary interest of Southern politicians--and consequently the underlying cause of the South's desire to seek independence and state rights.

This has been my attempt at providing a brief, balance answer to a complicated subject which has been the subject of many books. For further reading, I suggest Kenneth Stampp's Causes of the Civil War.
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Old 02-03-2008, 01:44 AM
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I’m going to go through this in sections so at times it may seem repetitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.
However true the statement might be, why and how the foot soldiers when to war is not relevant to why the Southern States seceded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
However, equally true is the statement: "Had there been no slavery, there would have been no war. Had there been no moral condemnation of slavery, there would have been no war." (This was made by Sydney E. Ahlstrome, in his monumental study of religion in America A Religious History of the American People, Yale University Press,1972, on p. 649)
The above is true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
Background
The curious thing is that although slavery was the moral issue of the nineteenth century that divided the political leaders of the land, the average American had very little interest in slaves or slavery. Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never even seen a slave.
Very true, also true is that none of them had anything to do with national or sectional policy making, so their mentioning here does not further the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
But political leaders on both sides were very interested in slaves and slavery. The South's economic system was based upon cotton--and slavery. The political leaders of the South, such as Robert Barnwell Rhett of South Carolina, William Lowndes Yancey of Alabama, The Fire Eaters and Robert Augustus Toombs of Georgia, recognized that if the South lost her slaves (i. e., had to pay slaves wages similar to what white laborers were paid), her entire socio-economic system would probably collapse. Hence any political action that took place that threatened the slavery system of the South received the undivided attention of the South's political leaders, many of whom were themselves slave owners.
Exactly true. But there was also very little that the north was able to do that actually threatened the slaves currently owned in the south. As stated before, every significant piece of legislation regarding slavery was about its spread, not about it’s ending in the south.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
Political leaders in the North were much more divided about the slavery issue. Many of the powerful abolitionists, such as William L. Garrison of Massachusetts, were either religious leaders or newspaper editors. A fewer number of abolitionsits, such as Senator Edwin Sumner of Massachusetts and Salmon P. Chase of Ohio, were politicians. The north had equally powerful political leaders such as democratic Senator Stephen A. Douglas who were either indifferent towards or supportive of slavery.
Which is exactly why the North never really tried to end slavery in the south, only limit it’s spread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
Today we recognize slavery as a moral issue. But in the early nineteenth century, it was seen as an economic issue first, moral issue second. A series of legislative actions, most notably the Missouri Compromise of 1820, had been enacted by Congress to put limits on the propagation of slavery, but compromise with northern and southern interests was always kept in mind. The South had an economic interest in the spread of slavery to the new territories so that new slave states could be created and the South's political influence would remain strong. The North had an interest in limiting the spread of slavery into the new territories for both purposes of controlling Southern political power AND support of the moral issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
So-was the war about slavery? Of course. If there had been no disagreement over the issue of slavery, the South would probably not have discerned a threat to its culture and the southern politicians would have been much less likely to seek "their right to secede." But was it only about slavery? No. It was also about the constitutional argument over whether or not a state had a right to leave the Union,
I believe the last part of that to be not untrue per say, but not the whole truth and not the moral truth of the argument for sure.

The South knew full well that to secede was going to cause a war. It also knew that while the constitution did not disallow it, it surely did not allow it. Which was the exact reason why the CSA constitution did ban secession.

and--of primary concern to most southern soldiers--the continuation of antebellum southern culture. Although the majority of Southerners had little interest in slaves, slavery was a primary interest of Southern politicians--and consequently the underlying cause of the South's desire to seek independence and state rights.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:45 PM
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Thanks for the fact you found so much truth in the complete post. Thats what I do I copy and paste the entire story or the major positions and give a link so one can check it out.
I didn't write the history but I know Lincoln didn't start the civil war and thats a fact, plain and simple.
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Last edited by mlurp : 02-03-2008 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
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What Robert E Lee thought is irrelevant as he wasn't a politician of any sort prior to the War.

Slavery was a big issue for Abolitionists but abolitionist didn't have significant enough power in the legislature to hope of getting a outright ban on slavery. In effect the north never tried to have the south give up it's slave. The north tried to prevent the slavery from spreading but slavery as it existed in the future CSA was very safe.

The North took power of the Federal Government because the South had to many slaves and not enough white men eligible to vote. Slavery caused that.
Actually.. There are 2 issues at play you forget.

1. The 2/3rd clause (Slave vote) was put in the US Constitution because the North did not want the South to have power.

2. With out that 2/3rd clause, the North would have never gained power. As every slave would have been counted equally as whites.

It was a stop gap for the spread of slavery.

I disagree over Slavery being the "reason" but it was the central issue.

By that I mean.. that Slavery was the topic, the result of the topic led to the 1850-1860 debate over State Rights and how much power the Federal Government has.
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Last edited by Finny : 02-04-2008 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Actually.. There are 2 issues at play you forget.

1. The 2/3rd clause (Slave vote) was put in the US Constitution because the North did not want the South to have power.

2. With out that 2/3rd clause, the North would have never gained power. As every slave would have been counted equally as whites.

It was a stop gap for the spread of slavery.

I disagree over Slavery being the "reason" but it was the central issue.

By that I mean.. that Slavery was the topic, the result of the topic led to the 1850-1860 debate over State Rights and how much power the Federal Government has.
Not to be a stickler, but its the 3/5 compromise in the Constitution. Agree with a bit of what you say. Slavery was a cornerstone of State's Rights.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:44 AM
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Not to be a stickler, but its the 3/5 compromise in the Constitution. Agree with a bit of what you say. Slavery was a cornerstone of State's Rights.

that was my fault.. I had 2/3rd in my mind for some reason when typing it.

Also.. There was a debate over State Rights when it came to Alien and Seditions Act between the Federalist and Anti-Federalist.

State's Rights have been the central reason for many issues in America.
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Last edited by Finny : 02-04-2008 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Actually.. There are 2 issues at play you forget.

1. The 2/3rd clause (Slave vote) was put in the US Constitution because the North did not want the South to have power.

2. With out that 2/3rd clause, the North would have never gained power. As every slave would have been counted equally as whites.

It was a stop gap for the spread of slavery.

I disagree over Slavery being the "reason" but it was the central issue.

By that I mean.. that Slavery was the topic, the result of the topic led to the 1850-1860 debate over State Rights and how much power the Federal Government has.
The 3/5ths clause was rather fair. Considering the south would be relying on the population of an oppressed people to calculate their representation.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:23 PM
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The 3/5ths clause was rather fair. Considering the south would be relying on the population of an oppressed people to calculate their representation.
So it was fair for the Northern States to deny a Slave a equal vote... but its not ok to own someone..

this logic escapes me.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:34 PM
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So it was fair for the Northern States to deny a Slave a equal vote... but its not ok to own someone..

this logic escapes me.
Slaves had NO VOTE, the north and the south where denying them everything. If slaves could vote you might have a point here. The 3/5th compromise did not effect a slaves rights in anyway. The 3/5th compromise effected the amount of representation the white of the south would have in the House only. Slaves were not citizens. Why should non citizens be counted when trying to establish the proper amount of national representation.

If anything the 3/5ths compromise was more than the south really deserved.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:59 PM
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Slaves had NO VOTE, the north and the south where denying them everything. If slaves could vote you might have a point here. The 3/5th compromise did not effect a slaves rights in anyway. The 3/5th compromise effected the amount of representation the white of the south would have in the House only. Slaves were not citizens. Why should non citizens be counted when trying to establish the proper amount of national representation.

If anything the 3/5ths compromise was more than the south really deserved.

This is one of the most misunderstood clauses of the US Constitution. The scandal here isn't that slaves were counted as less than human, it's that they were treated as less than human, and giving their numbers any weight at all in a census just increased the political power of slaveholders. It was the anti-slavery side that pushed to not count slaves in the census, of course delegates from slave-states wanted to maximize their states ennumerated population and increase their representation in the House. The result of this debate was the 3/5ths compromise.

You are ignoring the fact that the North DID NOT want them counted as 1 person. As it effected the Electoral College. That would have mean good ol Abe would not have won. But at the same time the North did want them as TAXABLE property.

Can't have it both ways.
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