Couples of months ago we "celebrated" the 40th anniversary of the death of revolutionary icon Ernesto Che Guevara but in the end it wasn't so clear that he was a heroe and many of us, really thought that he was no more than an assesin.

Lefty people always believe that people like Che or Stalin, for sure had a reason to do what they did. It does not matter how many million were killed by Stalin.........."they probably did something to deserve that punishment"

As you know the use of the lie as a political weapon is part of socialisms/communism. Lenin use to say that.

Months ago, the Pope beatified 498 slain in Spanish civil war in Rome.

Many of us have received information regarding the Spanish II República that perhaps was not so true, nor accurate.

We all know that lot of people from out of Spain came across to fight Franco's fascism, the world famous "Brigadas Internacionales". These Brigadas were formed by americans, brits, polish, danish, french.... people from different parts of the world. Remember that before and during the war, the Spanish republica area was full of Stalin's agents. Anyone who dare to show a non communists opinion, was sent to André Marty, a frenchman in charge of the Brigadas Internacionales, a true assesin that killed lot of brigadistas

But the reality is that the situation in Spain between 1931 and 18.07.1936 was unacceptable.

So in order to clarify a bit the way lefties worked in Spain back in those days, here you have a small list of priests killed just because of their belief, some of them beatified months ago by Ratzinger.

1931: May; lootering, riots and 100 churches burned in Madrid, Valencia, Alicante, Murcia, Sevilla y Cádiz. La Guardia Civil and fire fighters remained sat at their offices.

Año 1932: 3000 jesuitas expelled from Spain. Lootering, riots and churches burned in Zaragoza, Córdoba, Cádiz (enero); Sevilla (abril); Granada (julio), Cádiz, Sevilla y Granada (octubre).

Año 1934: Cup de etat commited by the socialist party of Spain.33 priests killed in Oviedo.

Año 1936, before Franco's cup de etat: 17 priests killed.

Now this is during the civil war.

Between 18 de julio al 1 de agosto: 861 priests killed.

Agosto de 1936: 2.077 priests killed (more than 70 per día), included 10 bishops.

So las October, many spaniards at last, were recongized they were just killed because of their faith in the christian God. They were not fascists, they were not criminals, they were just christians. Does anybody know the ortodoxos priests killed by Stalin? You won't believe it

But in Spain, back in those days you could be sent to jail just for wearing a suit and a tie.

In a local newspaper, last december, a spaniard from Madrid says:

"I was sent to jail in 1936 because I didn't have callous in my hands, therefore those were the hands of a fascist. I've never been part of Falange. The truht is that they arrested me becase I was wearing a tie"

Saludos

What made Che an assassn ? Is a soldier an assassin ? Or was it his judicial role that made him an assasin, if so are judges in the US assassins, or is the executioner an assassin ?

If the answers to these questions are no, then you must provide some sort of evidence that Che ever killed anyone who wasnt an enemy combatant or criminal.


On the point of killing priests, this point would hold more weight if the church hadnt been in bed with Franco and the fascists

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Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"

If your estimation is along the same lines as other absurdities like "Stalin murdered 20 million people" I'm sure the number is astronomical.

For once i agree with you

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Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"

His passion for the fight - he didn't seem to care about which side was which - just so long as he was in the fight. His African adventures show exactly who Che was - a whore for a good fight against 'the man'.

If he had of made one positive contribution to South America other than bullets and dead people, I might not be so contemptuous of his name.

No tears for Che from me. Total media creation - I don't like to celebrate random murderers.

A latter day Simon de Bolivar he was most certainly not.

Authoritarian socialist supporting 3rd world murdering terrorists are rather a dime a dozen these days... Che just seems to be one of the more photogenic ones.

As i said, where is the evidence he ever killed anyone who wasnt an enemy combatant or criminal ? He made plenty of contributions, and i think you know it. His pre-revolutionary days were spent helping the sick and the poor. That alone makes him special. His role in the cuban revolution has had a positive impact on millions. The millions who would have lived in poverty, who have saw their life expectancy soar, the illiterate who can now read. And what about all the people who get top class medical care who otherwise would have died ? And it doesnt end there, the Cuban revolution has saved people all over the world, they send more doctors to the third world than anyone else. And Che's life even brought improvements in life for his killer. That's right the killer of Che Guevara would now be blind of it wasnt for the good will of the Cuban government. That is all a product of Che, that is no media creation, that is a real impact on peoples lives.

__________________
Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"

The jungle eats its evidence.

There are no cameras, police investigations or crime scene units in the rebel hills.

A lack court-worthy of evidence of his murders doesn't prove that he's an angel.

Any idiot can pull a trigger and kill people. If you think that's a valuable contribution, perhaps you haven't met Guido yet. He likes to kill people too. Are you going to celebrate him too?

Mother Theresa look out. Che is going to be canonized and sainted.

So, Che was a philanthopist sharing his fortune with the poor? And a teacher? And a doctor? Wow.

Pretty impressive fellow for a gun-toting revolutionary.

Now you sharing Castro's credit with Che? Che ruled Cuba too? Amazing guy that Che.

You realize that such apologetics for murderers make you look silly?

Sure it is okay to admire a blood-curdling mercanary killer who supported your cause, but to pretend he's anything but a cold-blooded mercenary killer is a bit much for those of us who don't share the koolaid on this one.

Well there is no basis to make such claims, we could just as well accusse everyone in history of being a killer if the standard is that there isnt evidence to suggest they werent. That is applyint the principle of guilty until proven innocent.

What about all the other non military contributions i mentioned. What about incidents like la coubre ?

Your flippancy doesn't take away from the point

Without Che Castro's achievements (which are all of cubas achievements, not just one mans) would not have been possible.

Then all the supporters of the terrorist George Washington are silly, and even worse the supporters of the murderer George Bush, and the cold blooded killers in every army the world over.

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Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"

Suspecting Mother Theresa of a variety of murderous crimes would be silly given the majority of her work was the opposite character of murder.

Now Che, the vast majority of his 'work' involved killing poeple. Ergo, it is reasonable to expect that some of his killing career might not have been entirely legitimate (as if any murdering is legitimate).

Thus, it is entirely reasonable to expect that Che was guilty of a variety of murderous crimes, even if legal evidence isn't readily at hand - given his career choice.

And conversely, it would be entirely unreasonable to assume Mother Theresa was guilty of a variety of murderous crimes, only that the legal evidence is not readily at hand, given that murderous crimes are rather far from the body of knowledge known to exist about Mother Theresa.

GW Bush loves his dog. That proves he is a nice kind hearted man.

Likewise with Adolf, he loved his dog quite passionately.

And Hilter's Germany took care of the sick people there so one can clearly see that Adolf Hilter's regime was a good thing and Hitler himself was a good man.

No, it doesn't. But it sure puts it into perspective!

So Che was indespensible to the Cuban revolution.

All revolutionaries see themselves as INDESPENSIBLE to the revolution.

Btw, if your socialistic-Marxist-Leninist doctrine is correct, the revolution is inevitable and impossible to stop. Any given person's contribution is irrelevant.

That is to say, if Marxist-Leninist theory is correct, no one is indespensible to the revolution.

So if Che was indespensible, then the theory is flawed.

Nothing surprising here - socialism (like neocon theory) requires cognitive dissonance.

So Che only fought in legal, declared wars, in uniform, as per the Geneva Convention?

You are making me laugh.

Why is it reasonable to expect some of his work may not have been legitimate ? On that basis you should think every judge who hands out a death sentence may be a murderer.
Loving a dog is not the same as helpeing lepers, and fighting the oppressed peoples fight. He put himself on the line for other peoples gain. It is quite different from Bush or Hitler.


You are twisting what i say. The revolution may be a necessary stage of social development, but if you take Che out of the equation then the revolution in Cuba may have faired much differently.It may have failed and the next revolution may not have came for 20 years or longer. So all those lives saved in that time would have been lost.


Well lots of soldiers take part in wars deemed illegal, most people think the Iraq war is illegal, but it doesnt make the soldiers murderers.

__________________
Viva Fidel

"If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism"

"North Americans don't understand... that our country is not just Cuba; our country is also humanity"