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Enviromental Issues Discuss Environmental Issues here.

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Old 07-22-2008, 02:02 AM
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Can you link to something more indepth to this "feedback loop"?
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:54 AM
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This is one example of the problem of climate feedback loops, but there are also significant ones under the sea and in ice deposits. Humans are destroying these "stasis sites" thus releasing the natural CO2. In the case of some undersea and ice deposits, increased temperatures from increased human-caused CO2 melt the ice, break open the stasis trap, and then release natural CO2, which increases warming, which increases more CO2.

CLIMATE CHANGE: Wetlands Loss Fuelling CO2 Feedback Loop — IW:LEARN

Research News: Feedback Loops in Global Climate Change Point to a Very Hot 21st Century


There is also a positive feedback loop regarding methane concentration in the environment:

Global Warming Feedback Loop Caused by Methane, Scientists Say Part of it is human-induced, part of it is natural. Positive feedback loops aren't restricted to people causing them. They can, or they can facilitate one.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:09 AM
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Edit: in addition, there is often also the underlying assumption that if one proves that the majority of CO2 is not man-made, then it follows that man-made CO2 and global warming musn't be a real problem. But that assumes that the size of the contribution implies is ultimate significance: that's false.

One's food and mortgage payments generally dwarf other expenses yearly. That doesn't mean those expenses can't make or break your budget when tacked on. Since they are so small in comparison, they must be irrelevant, right?
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
Gee, most people who don't believe the GW hype are willing to err on the side of caution, so also advocate for nuclear power. And, many people who do believe the GW hype are also against nuclear power. The latter must have a hidden agenda.
Yeah, I find that disheartening on both counts. I provisionally believe the GW hype (at least enough to think that at least some action is preferable to none at all, better safe than sorry), and I am also pro-nuke power.
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Old 07-22-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
I do think it's amusing how internet google scholars who spend a few minutes "number crunching" think they have discovered some devastating problem that has eluded the best scientific minds on Earth and that no one in peer reviewed literature has come up with before.

Chalk it up to the Holiday Inn Express view on expertise.
"Wikipedia scientists."
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Old 07-22-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
This is one example of the problem of climate feedback loops, but there are also significant ones under the sea and in ice deposits. Humans are destroying these "stasis sites" thus releasing the natural CO2. In the case of some undersea and ice deposits, increased temperatures from increased human-caused CO2 melt the ice, break open the stasis trap, and then release natural CO2, which increases warming, which increases more CO2.

CLIMATE CHANGE: Wetlands Loss Fuelling CO2 Feedback Loop — IW:LEARN

Research News: Feedback Loops in Global Climate Change Point to a Very Hot 21st Century


There is also a positive feedback loop regarding methane concentration in the environment:

Global Warming Feedback Loop Caused by Methane, Scientists Say Part of it is human-induced, part of it is natural. Positive feedback loops aren't restricted to people causing them. They can, or they can facilitate one.
I'm going to disagree that CO2 breeds more CO2 (as we haven't had enough of a temp increas, 1 degree over 100 years, for that paticular process to take much strength, though it eventually will), but your first link points to the incalculable amounts of CO2 being released by wetlands that are being turned into cities or theme parks or whatever.

To your "budget" comparison, not only are we adding more bills (releaseing CO2), we are cutting our income (destroying forests to make way for growth, and reducing the amount of CO2 that the enviroment can naturally take out).
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:57 PM
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I know the first one deals with wetlands. It was just an example of the idea of a feedback loop. When you destroy carbon sinks, it tends to release it, which cause eventually more problems. The same concept follows when you get enough melting of ice. It releases more greenhouse gases. Desertification also increases global temperatures and CO2 concentrations. Humans cause that too.

It's not as serious yet. I will try to find the article about CO2 feedback loops they are predicting will make the problem worse.

Most of the greenhouse gases are natural. But imo, that doesn't make human one's insignificant.

THe CO2 feedback loop is supposed to become much more of a problem later.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
That's a typo, forgive me. It should be amount of mass.
It really would have, too.

CO2 comes from other places besides our coal factories. When we burn ANYTHING, that releases CO2. Is all that counted?
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post


It really would have, too.

CO2 comes from other places besides our coal factories. When we burn ANYTHING, that releases CO2. Is all that counted?
It takes into account all CO2 releases from direct human activity (coal, oil, gas for your car, the burning of any fuel in any industry).

What it doesn't take into account is the remove of CO2 sinks, or places that remove CO2 from the air.

I brought this up because on another forum that I recently joined, I saw this in the old threads, and over the course of 3 months, no one could answer it, they just called the OP person a denier.
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