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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
But the first surface (the solar panel) shields the second surface from the wind, so there is no or extremely minimal wind force on the actual roof.

Although DC is optimal, we can still use current power line, the power plants don't have to be in the deserts.

On a second note, to power all of the US, it would actually take about 26,000 square miles (with today's solar panels). Which at today's cost would be about $50 trillion dollars, but no one is advicating that we use solar and nothing else. And seeing as solar has dropped 96% in cost ($ per W, oh and the cost dropage is also not factoring in inflation, so it is actually a lot more than that) in the last 50 years, and increased in effeciency (W per sq meter) by 670% in the last 50 years, it is showing a lot of promise in the next 20 years.

That CO2 which is then recylced back into the power plant for the algae to use to make more, it is completely CO2 neutral.
1. No it doesn’t. Wind loads are most destructive to roofs in suction, and roof “blow off”. You put a wing on a roof and you’ve just doubled your uplift loads. Ever hear of a biplane?
2. Your argument pages back was to put these things in the desert to avoid displacing farmland and forests. Up goes the price of food and down goes wildlife and trees. Our current grid is AC. If you want a DC line it has to be separate from the grid. And again the longest DC line is 800 miles, and you are proposing 2000 miles.
3. 20 years is a long time to wait for something that may never happen. Why not drill for oil and build nukes, both proven technologies, while we wait?
4. Why not just burn the methane that we have now? It’s going to leak out of the ground anyway, and if we don’t burn it, is 20 times more harmful as a greenhouse gas than the CO2 released when burned. And we won’t have to have huge algae tanks, or polluted water in lakes or lagoons where we’re growing the stuff.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 07:57 PM
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The only reason man exists today is because of his ability to control and adapt his environment. We have big brains, and we invented tools to make up for our physical shortcomings. From clothing to A/C, we bend our surroundings to our will. Unlike animals, we are not limited to particular surroundings or conditions.

Given a history of manipulation of our environment to suit our needs, I think it's a bit odd to suddenly say we are helpless to manipulate our current environment, and dismiss global warming, or pollution, or overpopulation as inevitable and out of our control. Through policy, we've improved our air, water and sanitation. We no longer blacken the skies of London with coal smoke, like in the 1800s, for example.

Never has our ability to control and affect the environment been greater. So, when evidence emerges to support the theory that at least some of this apparent change is our fault, then we should man-up and do what we always do. "Going green" is intelligent and responsible, and I applaud our efforts to begin addressing what might be a severe issue.

I don't buy the blithering excusemaking for one minute.
I don't think that the argument that humans are or are not causing global warming, or if it is warming, is important. Sound solutions to energy independence can reduce so-called greenhouse gasses regardless. These include nuclear power, and exploitation of natural gas. Since environmentalist don’t embrace these technologies, it points to a hidden agenda.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 08:42 PM
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1. No it doesn’t. Wind loads are most destructive to roofs in suction, and roof “blow off”. You put a wing on a roof and you’ve just doubled your uplift loads. Ever hear of a biplane?
I'll draw a picture for you. A bi-plane has two set of wings, both have wind that can pass over them so that both sets can generate lift. In the case of the solar panels, there is no gap for the wind to go over the roof, the solar panel shields it.

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2. Your argument pages back was to put these things in the desert to avoid displacing farmland and forests. Up goes the price of food and down goes wildlife and trees. Our current grid is AC. If you want a DC line it has to be separate from the grid. And again the longest DC line is 800 miles, and you are proposing 2000 miles.
No, my arguement was that the desert is one place to put them, there are just about infinate locations for thousands of micro power plants and all that.

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3. 20 years is a long time to wait for something that may never happen. Why not drill for oil and build nukes, both proven technologies, while we wait?
How long do you think it would take to build 400 nuclear power plants like you suggested eariler? Drilling would take 5-10 on it's own.

[/quote]4. Why not just burn the methane that we have now? It’s going to leak out of the ground anyway, and if we don’t burn it, is 20 times more harmful as a greenhouse gas than the CO2 released when burned. And we won’t have to have huge algae tanks, or polluted water in lakes or lagoons where we’re growing the stuff.[/QUOTE

There's no reason not to, but that is not a reason not to make the algae tanks. The more energy we have (meaning not limiting any except those that absolutely should be), the cheaper the energy will be, and the more sources (types of sources) that we have, the less likely a monopoly can form and should something unforseeible accure regarding one type of power, the easier it is to adjust.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:04 PM
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At no wind angle does the wind cause a 'double' surface. The roof is either sheltered from the wind (and so does not feel it's force) or the lift from high and low pressures won't effect the panel.
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:35 PM
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You actually made that diagram. I for one, think that's so cute lol.

That's dedicated, man.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 10:36 PM
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People will adapt, yes. GLobal Warming isn't going to extinct humanity. It will cause a pile of problems, though.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 10:39 PM
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Yes we will adapt, by changing our key power sources, that is how we will adapt. You should all know what happens to species that don't adapt...
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:03 AM
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Could it be that the environment is simply adapting to human adaptation on the planet?
Wow. I don't recall having read something so absurd. Think about that sentance for a bit Chan.

I take it Earth is adapting to us, by getting very sick.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Recusant View Post
Wow. I don't recall having read something so absurd. Think about that sentance for a bit Chan.

I take it Earth is adapting to us, by getting very sick.
Is it sick or merely undergoing change? The problem is that you're using some point in the past as the standard against which to measure what's going on instead of looking forward.

Do we say that a species adapting to changes in its environment is sick or that it is undergoing adaptation?
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"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
Yes we will adapt, by changing our key power sources, that is how we will adapt. You should all know what happens to species that don't adapt...
So, could it not also be that the planet will adapt to our adaptations?
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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