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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
Name one species that has been killed off because of dams.

The only roofs that can't hold them are ones that are not kept at a safe structural level. Roofs are all designed to be able to support solar panels, as they are not that heavy, and lifts can easily adjust them to the best angle. Solar panels still work when there are clouds, just not as well.

DC power lines can transport electricity a long distance with minimal energy lost to resistance in the wires (like they do now, you don't all have a generator in you back yard).

Algae thrives on CO2, which it then turns into O2 + fuel (theres more than that, but you get the idea), it works like almost every other plant and it cleans the enviroment or CO2.
1.

Threatened and Endangered Species: White Sturgeon Acipenser transmontanus Fact Sheet | Montana NRCS

Dam vs forest in Dandeli

2. Roofs are designed to hold themselves, wind loads, and a small amount of live load for repair. Solar panels create an addition wind load because of the second surface. Clouds reduce the efficiencies dramatically, and at night they are useless.

3. The electrical power grid is AC. Line loss decreases strongly with increasing voltage. The low voltages created by solar panels in say, Nevada, are useless to the large population centers in the Northeast.

4. The devil is in the details. Algae requires micronutrients, ie: pollution.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
And what degree or education do you have that makes you qualified to make such sweeping claims about the science, the scientists, and their methods? A B.S. in Googling?
It doesn't take an advanced degree to know that it's impossible for scientists to actually go back in time to 650,000 years ago and measure the carbon dioxide levels. I can't believe you even thought to make such an idiotic remark!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 12:22 PM
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It doesn't take an advanced degree to know that it's impossible for scientists to actually go back in time to 650,000 years ago and measure the carbon dioxide levels. I can't believe you even thought to make such an idiotic remark!
So you have nothing other than your personal googling.

That's settled.

I will call you when I want to make a boolean search for something. Until then, go away. You're useless.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
So you have nothing other than your personal googling.

That's settled.

I will call you when I want to make a boolean search for something. Until then, go away. You're useless.
When you can show me some scientist actually going back in time to 650,000 years ago and measuring the carbon dioxide levels, then I will believe that present world carbon dioxide levels are, to quote the thread title, "highest for 650,000 years."

You really don't get it, do you? Claiming that carbon dioxide levels are presently the highest that they have been in 650,000 years is speculation, conjecture, extrapolation. IT IS NOT FACT! Until you can actually go back to 650,000 years ago and measure the carbon dioxide levels and then compare that to present levels, any such claim is unproven. It doesn't matter how many computer models you create, it's still nothing more than speculation, conjecture, extrapolation - nothing more than guesswork.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 12:59 PM
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Bravo, I asked to name one speices that has been killed off, and you provided one that hasn't been killed off. It also says that the dam is only a partial factor. The main factors are the fishing of them in Montana and large demand for their eggs as caviar.


Quote:
2. Roofs are designed to hold themselves, wind loads, and a small amount of live load for repair. Solar panels create an addition wind load because of the second surface. Clouds reduce the efficiencies dramatically, and at night they are useless.
Because of thier positioning, they selter the first surface (the actual roof) from the wind so there is still only one surface for the wind (which will have ne effect unless the wind is blowing head on to the panals). The live load that roofs can hold is far greater than the weight of the panels. As for clouds and at night, I'm well aware of that (as are most people) and have taken those into consideration on all of my calculations regarding solar panels.


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3. The electrical power grid is AC. Line loss decreases strongly with increasing voltage. The low voltages created by solar panels in say, Nevada, are useless to the large population centers in the Northeast.
First, it is very easy to convert AC to DC and back. Second, there are multiple ways to increase the voltage of a solar system, one is to hook them in series rather than parralle. but the simplest and cheapest (using tools that are already on power lines) is to use a transformer. It takes low voltage and turns it into high voltage.

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4. The devil is in the details. Algae requires micronutrients, ie: pollution.
Algae requires, CO2, Water, sunlight, and minimal nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus, and other minerals). All but sunlight are released when you burn the algae biomass. Then you can just recycle the CO2, water, and nutrients back into the tank to grow more algae. It is completely self sustaining. Since all it is, is a method to gather solar energy, using algae as a catalyst.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
When you can show me some scientist actually going back in time to 650,000 years ago and measuring the carbon dioxide levels, then I will believe that present world carbon dioxide levels are, to quote the thread title, "highest for 650,000 years."

You really don't get it, do you? Claiming that carbon dioxide levels are presently the highest that they have been in 650,000 years is speculation, conjecture, extrapolation. IT IS NOT FACT! Until you can actually go back to 650,000 years ago and measure the carbon dioxide levels and then compare that to present levels, any such claim is unproven. It doesn't matter how many computer models you create, it's still nothing more than speculation, conjecture, extrapolation - nothing more than guesswork.
Ice core studying, can actuately determine the CO2 consentration levels in comparison to what they are today. It's simple science. Just like with rock faces on canyons, different depths represent different times in history, the deeper the older. CO2 is trapped in the ice, and when we pull it out we can read it in respect to todays concentrations (which are on the surface of the ice).
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 01:16 PM
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Saying we need to physically go back in time to make as statement about today's levels being the highest since them is like saying we can't make claims about evolutionary biology unless we also went back in time and were there personally. That's clearly absurd.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
Ice core studying, can actuately determine the CO2 consentration levels in comparison to what they are today.
The issue there, however, is in dating methodology that is not flawless. There's still too much extrapolation going on.

Quote:
It's simple science. Just like with rock faces on canyons, different depths represent different times in history, the deeper the older.
Again, the issue there is dating methodology.

Quote:
CO2 is trapped in the ice, and when we pull it out we can read it in respect to todays concentrations (which are on the surface of the ice).
Yes, I'm aware of this process. But it still doesn't prove 650,000 years, 65,000 years or even 6,500 years.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
Saying we need to physically go back in time to make as statement about today's levels being the highest since them is like saying we can't make claims about evolutionary biology unless we also went back in time and were there personally. That's clearly absurd.
Considering the alleged vast expanse of time involved, I would say that you can't make certain claims about evolutionary biology unless you went back in time and were there personally or, at the very least, could exactly replicate the conditions of that time (and I don't mean what you think were the conditions). If I'm expected to accept science as authoritative then I damn well expect science to be flawless and entirely free of speculation or extrapolation.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 02:06 PM
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I guess we'll never know if Hitler really did do anything bad, as we can't go back in time and see for ourselves.
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