1/5 the state of Lousiana, my foot! Florida's going to be totally gone!

__________________
"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Yeah, but Florida's full of so many old people, that 90% of the population would already be dead by then anyway.

__________________
01100001 01101000 00100000 01101011 01101001 01101100 01101100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01100101 01111000 01110101 01110011 00111111

True global warming will not be helping the earth in very many ways, but you need to realize global warming is not a fact. There are natural patterns there... did you ever think that a -AO cycle may be causing the Arctic melt? Or do you guys not know much behind the science of climate and weather? It plays more into the so called "science of global warming", more than you think. Of course your argument is sound but it's not disproving my argument. (all be it, simmon in another thread put up a good one, that I still need to refute.) Good post though.

There are no natural patterns which would lead to the heating and melting we're seeing. Analysis of antarctic ice cores provides a clear picture of the carbon cycle, and current CO2 levels in the atmosphere are many times what the normal maximum is. And, let's see, who has been dumping trillions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere... hmm... oh, that's right, MAN!

Additionally, the sun has actually been consistently cooling over the past 20 years or so.

__________________
01100001 01101000 00100000 01101011 01101001 01101100 01101100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01100101 01111000 01110101 01110011 00111111

I would say you are the one is so ignorant on the science behind global warming. The only way you get your rubbish numbers is if you chose to follow a couple computer models that show you that. Guess what? The atmosphere is not acting the way these models showed they would and it must be that either the models are overdoing the power of greenhouse gases or that they are more negative feedbacks that arent plugged into that computer model. If you plug in the new cosmic ray-solar activity-cloud cover theory, then the model shows cooling which by the way, is looking more and more right by the second.

You also say that farming would get hurt in a warming earth, where to get your "couple of degrees (f)" you would need to pump out CO2 for the next 100 years at the current pace but thats another story. What about all the new farm land in Canada, Russia, and all the northern in the north hemisphere and far southern in the southern hemisphere? There would also be a new shipping route through the arctic ocean that would significantly boost world trade and the world economy that also could serve as a shipping route for crops as well. Problem solved! Then again, what problem was there in the first place, besides on your Playstation.

I didn't get my numbers from a simulation. I got my numbers from analysis of ice cores from Antarctica wherein each layer of ice contains an amount of carbon proportional to the amount in the atmosphere when it was formed. It's very similar to the idea behind radiocarbon dating.

The atmosphere isn't going to be directly affected other than by the direct addition of CO2. The effects will be felt in the melting of glacial and polar ice and the effects of its introduction into the oceans, causing lowered temperature, oceanic conveyor disruption, and rising sea levels (which would be catastrophic for anywhere on a coast).

The sun is getting cooler at this point in its cycle. That does not just apply to temperature. That applies to its output of all electromagnetic radiation.

What new farm land are you talking about? Hypothetical new farm land? There's a reason I facetiously talked about December surfing in Massachusetts. You might as well say the Holocaust was great because it fought overpopulation, or because it reduced competition in the banking industry.

What problem is solved? How is shipping corn over the Arctic Ocean going to make the world a better place? People in Russia aren't the ones who're starving. What the hell are you even talking about a Playstation for? I don't even own a Playstation, and I don't play video games. The problem is that glacial and polar melting could cause millions of deaths due to rising sea levels. Human life is always more important than the economic bottom line, anyway; a good economy is worthless with no people.

__________________
01100001 01101000 00100000 01101011 01101001 01101100 01101100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01100101 01111000 01110101 01110011 00111111

Minor nitpick. Many Russians are on the verge of starving due to mass exportation of foodstuffs to countries who can afford higher prices (the west) while they can't get their own food. This is lead to huge price freezes and attempts to shut down trade.

But other than that, the problem is he doesn't comprehend the scale of the problem.

Bs, yes the co2 is going up fast. But most of it is coming from the carbon sinks. Those are the oceans, and perma frost. So not even the theory that man is all to do with that holds for most of it. Yes a little of it. Also the last 30 years we have been on a overall warm phase, in which causes a warmer world. The southern Hem is already starting to lap into a cooler phase. With the Antarctic having record sea ice. Also a map I've seen just last night shows that the last 5 years that the innior of greenlands glacierals(Headland center of europe) shown a increase in snow fall. 90 Percent of the worlds major land glaciers are growing. That is a fact. Yes some mountain glaciers are melting and also the artic sea ice. But we will see once the pattern changes back. So please be open minded.

__________________
"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, June 2004.


"If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity; it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war" -- George Washington, Fifth Annual Address to Congress, December 13, 1793

You would think that in a warmer world with the fact that most(90 percent) of russia is to cold to grow food. That global warming would be a good thing.

__________________
"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, June 2004.


"If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity; it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war" -- George Washington, Fifth Annual Address to Congress, December 13, 1793

MMMM, I would say that those ice cores show differently. In fact those ice cores have shown at least in Antarctic terms that we go through huge innerglacierals every 100,000-115,000 years. Followed by long term cold phases/ice ages that advance and retreat back and forth between them. What load of **************** that you think that those ice cores say that this is the warmest time in the last 600,000 years. Your buddy Mann of the hockey stick tryed his damnest to destroy the last 1,000 years and the little ice age to help you people. But guest what he was proven to be wrong. The mid evil period was "nearly" as warm as it is today. I say nearly because the sun spots of now are the highest in 2,000+ years. Do you understand the highest in 2,000 years. Some think it is the highest of this hole innerglacieral going back 8-9 thousand years ago. In yet people seem to think that it has nothing to do with the warming.

True the rate of warming is to fast to be all from this solar max. In fact humans likely do have some impact. But 90 percent of it is because of the carbon sinks...A carbon sink holds a trillion times more Co2/Methane,water vapor then we could put into the Atmosphere. Hell one good volcano eruption could send our temperature down .5f+ like 1991. But anyways a lot of the reason the Arctic sea ice, yes the sea ice that floats on the ocean is melting. Is because of storm track and other factors that come into it. We are with in a warm phase. So really we have a innerglacieral period of the highest sun spots of the last 2-8 thousand years 2# we have put some co2 into the Atmopshere=with the nature cycle opens up the carbon sinks 3# We are in a warm phase.

So when you put it all together its pretty easy to see what is going on. Greenland and Antarctic land graciers(the ones inland away from the coast) are growing. Yes the mountain ones in south America and Europe are melting. They going back and forth. In this is what they do. Also with a warmer planet you can have increasing and decreasing snow and storm tracks. But any ways with the lowing of the sun spots and a possible switch away from the warm phase. It is at least respectful that we think about a cool down.


"The sun is getting cooler at this point in its cycle. That does not just apply to temperature. That applies to its output of all electromagnetic radiation."

Bull ****************, in fact it is all about output. During the little ice ag there was very litte output. Now there and at least was high output. Yes it is about electromagnetic radiation, that is what the sun spots our made of. In that is one of the reasons why the sun has these cycles.

One more thing, I'm interested in the fact that we have the highest sun spot/out put in 2,000 years. In which on top of the normal warm phase/carbon sink release event we are currently seeing. Could be much of the reason why we are having most of the warming, also could be the main reason why it has want up so fast.

__________________
"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, June 2004.


"If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity; it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war" -- George Washington, Fifth Annual Address to Congress, December 13, 1793