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Enviromental Issues Discuss Environmental Issues here.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:23 PM
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Lettuce, tomatoes, celery, radish's, more lettuce, cucumbers, broccoli and some stuff I don't care for . Yogurt is ok. But it doesn't fill me like a steak or stew. loooooool
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyCity View Post
Ugh....

I ate Chinese for dinner.


We are built and designed, by God or evolution take your pick, to be omnivores. If someone wants to go to one side of the wide band of nutrition available to humanity and get all their nutrients there more power to them and I hope they eat well enough have long, full, healthy lives. I made a different choice. Either way, as long as you're cool with me I'm cool with you./

Last edited by George A Peterson : 12-02-2007 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:44 PM
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You can craft a healthful vegetarian diet. The real problem is the extreme vegans who don't educate themselves and thing they can just eat berries and nuts. Then you can become unhealthy, but many modern foods are already fortified and there are abundant supplements.

Many of the supplements derive key nutrients not found in plants for bacteria, etc. Since they aren't self-aware, feeling creatures, I really don't care much if they are destroyed, as long as it doesn't promote ecological instability.\

People are naturally omnivorous, yes, but you can live a healthy lifestyle on little to no meat, or you can minimize the types of meat productions that cause the most harm both environmentally and in terms of suffering. Avoiding appalling factory farm conditions is a key.

I generally don't want to cause unnecessary suffering if I can avoid it, even if it is more difficult.

Last edited by Technocratic_Utilitarian : 12-02-2007 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
Eating a human is your same species and with creatures with our intellect it is wrong, but with eating animals that are "lower" than us and it can be justified.
So it's okay to eat people with very low IQ?
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:28 AM
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If humans were not meant to eat animals, animals would be MUCH harder to kill, and would not taste as delicious as they do (especially with some barbeque sauce).

Anthony Bourdain said it best:

Quote:
Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food. The body, these waterheads imagine, is a temple that should not be polluted by animal protein. It's healthier, they insist, though every vegetarian waiter I've worked with is brought down by any rumor of a cold. Oh, I'll accommodate them, I'll rummage around for something to feed them, for a 'vegetarian plate', if called on to do so. Fourteen dollars for a few slices of grilled eggplant and zucchini suits my food cost fine.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:27 PM
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Well, I'm not here to change anybody's mind about the vegetarian diet, but I've been a vegan for more than half my life now. I've studied nutrition at the college level and I know that meat in very small quantities will not do irreparable damage to a person and that no meat at all is a good diet for most people.

I became a vegan for dietary reasons since I was doing a lot of running and bicycle riding at the time and needed more endurance. After I quit eating animals I came to see them differently and now I am an ethical vegan who wouldn't eat them even if meat was good for me--which it isn't.

Our macho-oriented culture perceives eating meat as masculine (good book on this subject called THE SEXUAL POLITICS OF MEAT by Carol Adams) and vegetarian diet as feminine--cultural nonsense with no basis in fact. If a man doesn't wish to kill sentient beings so that he can burn their bodies and stuff the carrion down his throat he is considered weak or womanly, not a REAL man. That's why so many men die of heart attacks. There is a direct connection between the consumption of animal fats and prostate cancer as well.

The symphony of suffering, pain, anguish, misery, and neglect in the world is so overwhelming that I don't want to add even a single note to it. I don't need to kill sentient beings who have the same kind of nerves, ganglia, spinal cord, and pain receptors as I have, so I don't. Nothing I see makes me think that humans love their lives any more than animals love theirs. The idea that since animals can't reason or speak that they are fair game for whatever we wish to do to them is self-serving sophistry. We don't use mentally deficient people like animals, do we? No one knows what animal intelligence is really like, they are so different from us that we can't begin to translate their view of the world into something intelligible to us. Our use and abuse of every other specie on this planet is a triumph of the philosophy of MIGHT IS RIGHT. It's an indefensible and morally bankrupt philosophy the we thoughtlessly visit upon others, but hate to have visited upon us.

The meat-based diet is also a disaster for the environment since it takes an order of magnitude more calories of input to produce food for a meateater than it does a vegetarian. The idea that if it's wrong to eat animals, then it's wrong to eat plants is silly. We know that plants don't have the same capacity for feeling pain or fear that we know animals have, and even if they did it would still make more sense to eat them since it takes about 100 pounds of plant material to make one pound of meat--eating low on the food chain is better all the way around. Another point for the vegetarian diet is that even if plants could feel pain (and we know they don't have the biological equipment for it) much plant food does not require killing or injury to the plant: all the fruits are gifts from the plants to whatever animal will eat it and spread the seeds, grain plants mature and die leaving their seeds which are only potential life until they are quickened by soil, water, and sunlight.

The vegetarian diet is kinder, the vegan diet even more so since no dairy animals or chickens are held captive in feedlots or battery cages. The production of veal is so disgusting that it is the kiddie-porn of the meat industry, pate' is just as bad. Billions of sentient beings with feelings and fears and the ability to experience pain are enslaved and slaughtered for the pleasure of the human palate.

We are so sure of our exalted state that we never look at the Hell we visit on those creatures powerless to oppose us. We have been given so much and they have been given so little, why do we now steal the tiny estate given them by God? Even the Bible warns us against this kind of behavior:
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. And who has not read about the Second Coming and the time of peace when the lion shall lay down with the lamb? Is this not a clear signal from our Creator that He wishes the slaughter to end? That when things are being done to His standard that even animals will not kill each other? People are the only predators with a choice, till the new Kingdom comes animals have to live as God made them, but we have a choice. I choose peace, I choose not to kill, only God can give life and we have no right to steal the lives that He has seen fit to give to others. LIVE AND LET LIVE
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