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Election 2008 Discuss the upcoming election in 2008.

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Old 10-20-2008, 01:11 PM
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Question What is a freedom-loving voter to do in 2008?

I’m perplexed. With the Republican and Democratic parties each offering us corporate-sponsored, big-government candidates, and the other parties not having a snowball’s chance in hell of winning, what is the voter who demands smaller government and greater individual liberty to do?

The answer used to be easier. A former card-carrying member of the Libertarian Party, I voted Libertarian for years. Although the LP presidential candidate never had a chance due to ballot access laws favoring the Big Two and general misunderstanding by many voters about the principals governing libertarian philosophy, the LP has been around long enough to become the third largest party in the U.S. so I supported it, hoping it would grow. But then, for the first time ever that I am aware of, the LP departed from its longstanding principles when it selected neocon Bob Barr to be its presidential candidate. Although I disagreed, I understood the rationale, that the party decided to go with name recognition rather than principle. But when Bob Barr refused to share the platform recently with other third party candidates, I’m afraid that the negative attention this caused may have been the death knell of the LP. So I decided to not vote Libertarian this year.

Then there is my favorite candidate, Ron Paul. He was a refreshing voice during the 2008 campaigns and struck a chord with the large demographic who feels disenfranchised by the Big Two and who wants to see the leviathan that is our government returned to its original, limited boundaries defined in the Constitution. Ron Paul represented more change than either of the Big Two’s candidates pretended to offer and was too much of a threat to the corporations running our government, so his proponents were harassed and silenced during the GOP convention by those who want to maintain business as usual in Washington. I’ve considered writing in his name but since he has no electors such a vote won’t count.

I was pleased to see a new freedom-loving party form called the Boston Tea Party. They are so new that they aren’t on the ballot in many states, but they are on the ballot in Tennessee so I thought that might be a good choice. I realize they have no chance of winning, but a new party has to start somewhere and I liked the idea of supporting a new alternative to the LP. That is, until I read this morning that the Florida affiliate of this fledgling party has broken away from the national organization, calling the Boston Tea Party’s viability into question: Charles Jay slams BTP Chairman Jim Davidson; Florida BTP disaffiliates from national

So now I’m back to square one. Early voting started last week in Tennessee so I can go to the polls anytime now, but I’m stumped. I’ve done my homework and decided who to choose for Congress, but when it comes to the presidency I have no idea what to do.

So what is a freedom-loving voter to do when our voices don’t count?
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:11 PM
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I disagree that Barr is a neocon.

He has my vote.

Otherwise, I would just undervote.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
I disagree that Barr is a neocon.

He has my vote.

Otherwise, I would just undervote.
Bone, Barr is a LINO and you know it. I'll vote for him because a weakened GOP might throw fiscal conservatives our way, and a strong showing could garner media attention, but a libertarian Barr is not.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:59 PM
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Bone, Barr is a LINO and you know it. I'll vote for him because a weakened GOP might throw fiscal conservatives our way, and a strong showing could garner media attention, but a libertarian Barr is not.
I have worked with Barr for three years and witnessed his conversion. Is he an anarchist? No. However, neither am I. He had NOTHING to gain out of running in this election. I doubt seriously he will ever run again.

After witnessing all the backstabbing from LP members this cycle I might leave the party myself. You seem to forget, L Neil Smith and his ilk accused me of being a 'neo-con' back in '06 and committed multiple acts libel against Bob Smither at the time as well.

To many, if your not an anarchists hell bent on burning down DC and planting weed.....you're just not libertarian enough.

From my perspective, I hope ALL of the anarchists leave the LP and join the BTP. They can have a good time debating on how many anarchists can dance on the head of a pin. They will be as productive as they were after the '80 takeover.
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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
I have worked with Barr for three years and witnessed his conversion. Is he an anarchist? No. However, neither am I. He had NOTHING to gain out of running in this election.
To be honest, I never heard of him before he became the LP candidate, so he did receive some name recognition that he didn't have before IMO.

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You seem to forget, L Neil Smith and his ilk accused me of being a 'neo-con' back in '06 and committed multiple acts libel against Bob Smither at the time as well.
You're no neocon, but I was going by Barr's past voting record when I made that statement about him. Not having worked with him like you have gives me a different perspective and I'm not convinced of his libertarian conversion. I wasn't looking for an anarchist candidate, though.

Quote:
To many, if your not an anarchists hell bent on burning down DC and planting weed.....you're just not libertarian enough.
That's true. Libertarianism comes in many flavors.
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Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:20 PM
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That's true. Libertarianism comes in many flavors.
I would submit most do.

The DNC has Obama flavor, Gravel Flavor, Kusenich flavor, Biden Flavor. I wish that people would start assuming that members of the same party automatically have the same agenda. I know Dems on this board that I have far less in common with then some of the Libritarians.

I notice many LP members that seem like disinfranchised republicans, and some that are indeed the Classic definition of libreal.

The GOP has Neocons, Religious right, then True small government conservitives.
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by malrenalds View Post
I would submit most do.
I agree.

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I know Dems on this board that I have far less in common with then some of the Libritarians.
AHA! Then our conversion program is working. j/k
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
I disagree that Barr is a neocon.

He has my vote.

Otherwise, I would just undervote.
He may not be a neocon but he is an interventionist.
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"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

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"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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Old 10-20-2008, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
To be honest, I never heard of him before he became the LP candidate, so he did receive some name recognition that he didn't have before IMO.
He campaigned for Smither and help with fundraisers back in '06. He formally switched parties just after the election that year and joined the LNC as the SE Regional Rep. Mind you that it might have been the fact that between June and November after interaction between Smither, Lampson and Gibbs, the latter two being huge fans of the patriot act, he began to realize that we were not all a bunch of burnt out hippie libertines.

Quote:
You're no neocon, but I was going by Barr's past voting record when I made that statement about him. Not having worked with him like you have gives me a different perspective and I'm not convinced of his libertarian conversion. I wasn't looking for an anarchist candidate, though.
Tell that to Carrol Moore, Joe Knight, L Neil Smith, George Phillies et al. They would stab their own mothers in the back if they could maintain their status as a big fish in a little pond.

It highly disturbs them that the LP has shown exceptional growth in the past four years after their faction lost control. If that growth can be maintained, and we start realizing double digit results in our congressional races (3-way), it will have proven our point.

You can claim that you want 'maximum' liberty all you want. However, you cannot get there by scaring the crap out of voters with fringe political positions (like a corporate [blackwater] military0 or by declaring that you will ignore the law (refuse funding to county roads) if voted into office.

Trading one form of tyranny (government) for another (corporatism) does not equate to the expansion of liberty.
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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat
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