I like where you're going with that, Michael, I think you're right. Just like Yugoslavia, it's a "forced" country. Let it fracture. Let them work it out, to their own satisfaction. Any imposition of will by outside nations is going to be resented.

When the dust settles, THEN we can restart relations and buy oil.

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"I don't think we should be governing ourselves. What need is a king, and every now and then if the king’s not doing a good job, we kill him." - George Carlin

To clarify - I am not saying simply leave now and so what about the consequences. I am say do a SOFT partition of Iraq that decentralizes government. The one they have right now is being dominate by the al Malaki Shia faction loyal to Ayotellah Khoumeni in Iran. That doesn't work for me or Iraq.

American style centralized democracy cannot be simply transplanted, so try partitioning. That will most likely work as most Iraqis think of themselves first and foremost as part of a tribe or clan or as loyal to a specific line of religious leaders going up to the highest level - Ayotellahs.

Iraq is a scab. Best to do it quick, and just deal with the pain.

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"I don't think we should be governing ourselves. What need is a king, and every now and then if the king’s not doing a good job, we kill him." - George Carlin

Actually, that is not the best way to deal with a scab (or Iraq), that (in both cases) will result in re-opening the wound and causing it to bleed and just form another scab.

What is best to do is to peel off the edge of the scab until you get to where there is no skin under it, then wait a little while and repeat. Eventually, you will have removed the scab with no bleedy.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Yeah, but that way, you don't get a cool scar. And chicks dig scars.

But more seriously, we've piddled around there long enough. Any prolonged period of weaning is going to sink us further. It's going to be bloody and brutal any way you slice it. I say, get it over with ASAP.

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"I don't think we should be governing ourselves. What need is a king, and every now and then if the king’s not doing a good job, we kill him." - George Carlin

I'll second that. They like them way more than tattoos. In fact the only tattoos that I have are arrows and circles directing them to my scars.

But seriously, we can't just jump out. What would that do to Iraq? What would it do for our relationship with Iraq? What would it do to our relationship with our allys? Our enemies?

Then compare that with if we slowly pull out.

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"The people have always some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness...This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector."


"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."

--Plato

Probably simply hasten the inevitable full-scale civil war, and possibly ending Iraq as we know it.

Ask an Iraqi. My impression is that they're none too happy about us being there, certainly not happy about the world's largest military/colonial base, either. Or, did I miss the bit where they greeted us with flowers?

Oh, sure, NOW we start worrying about how this looks? Where were you in early '03?

The damage is done. We can't begin to repair anything rep-wise, until we clearly demonstrate that we can admit we made a mistake.

I surely am.

Here's a test: Find the nearest pit bull. Hit him on the head with a bat a few times. Stick your genitalia in its mouth. Now, choose how quickly you wish to withdraw...

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"I don't think we should be governing ourselves. What need is a king, and every now and then if the king’s not doing a good job, we kill him." - George Carlin

It is as simple as this. Either we commit economic suicide and stay or we leave and have a few people upset with us. Its not like people are not already upset with us. If we stop interfering so much with the rest of the world we will have more people happy with us anyway.

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May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

Think of it like this. You think you dropped a twenty dollar bill into a hole. You go to grab it with your hand. Then, you literally turn around and **** in the hole with your hand still there. You realize the twenty you were after is actually still safe in your pocket. And then like four other dudes come up and **** in the hole, too. Do you take your hand out? Or do you keep it in, yelling "stay the course!"?

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When's the last time you had happy days?
Blazin' up your herb to escape the maze.

~Dove, De La Soul, Itsoweezee

Thirty-three sayin nothin, second thirty-three just frontin', third thirty-three straight bluffin, Ice Tea sayin do somethin! Tupac sayin do somethin! NWA says do somethin! Zulu Nation sayin' c'mon, do somethin! Visionaries sayin do somethin!

BZZZZ. Wrong. You're stereotyping. Ayotollahs are unique to Shi'a Islam, which is practiced primarily in Iran, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, and northeastern Iraq--the Persian and semi-Persian areas. Sunni Muslims have no religious leaders; anyone can get up on the pulpit and preach.

Also, not all Iraqis are Bedouin, Mike. They may identify with one family name or another, but they are not nearly as tribal as you're making them out to be, especially in the urban areas.

Sunni Arabs in the south, Shi'a Persians in the northeast, and Kurds in the nortwest--good lord, it's India-Pakistan-Bangladesh all over again.