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Old 06-06-2008, 12:27 PM
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Default Geoism is the only logical land-based system

Geolibertarians are advocates of geoism, which is the position that all land is a common asset to which all individuals have an equal right to access, and therefore if individuals claim the land as their property they must pay rent to the community for doing so. In this way, you are not taking advantage of another person through unfair property acquisition.

Since land was not made by human toil, claiming any of it as your own is illegitimate UNLESS you compensate everyone else with a commonly-accepted standard. In modern economies that would be taxation, but I guess labor could substitute for money if the community decided it that valuable. As opposed to current property taxes which target improvements, the only item being taxed is land. Land where nobody pays taxes from is held in common.

Perceived Lockean theory (which excludes Locke's warning about not “hoard[ing] up without injury to anyone" is not an applicable standard. How do you acquire mineral rights? If I piss into dirt, is that labor? By whose standards?
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:33 PM
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Gene, you have no idea what you unleash, my man.... Property rights have been a cornerstone of civilization for centuries.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
Gene, you have no idea what you unleash, my man.... Property rights have been a cornerstone of civilization for centuries.
Of Western civilization...

I admit, it's hard for me to get my mind around a different system. "Imagine no posessions, I wonder if you can."
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:43 PM
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Imagine trying to keep track of everything that you have to "pay rent" for. Try to balance that budget.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
Gene, you have no idea what you unleash, my man.... Property rights have been a cornerstone of civilization for centuries.
You still have property rights; you're merely acknowledging legitimacy to your claims. Most property throughout history has been acquired through theft and plunder.

People who own land are at an advantage to those who don't, and unlike one's labor, earth is not an inherit feature of one's ability or person. Land value should be assessed and then turned over into a flat tax. The revenue from this money should go directly towards every individual; the only people who are at any "advantage" don't own land - but as I said, that's already a disadvantage so it negates any differences.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Since land was not made by human toil, claiming any of it as your own is illegitimate UNLESS you compensate everyone else with a commonly-accepted standard. In modern economies that would be taxation, but I guess labor could substitute for money if the community decided it that valuable. As opposed to current property taxes which target improvements, the only item being taxed is land. Land where nobody pays taxes from is held in common.
I don't know that it's done this way in all states, but here in Texas, all land that is not publicly owned, is taxed, whether that land is developed or not.

I own a few acres not far from Austin, and although it has literally no development at all except a fence around it (built by neighboring land owners) I still pay taxes. Granted these will go up if I ever develop that land in any way...

but, since I am paying something back to 'society', is this not compatible with this thery of 'geolibertarianism'?

is private land ownership really such a bad thing?
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
Imagine trying to keep track of everything that you have to "pay rent" for. Try to balance that budget.
Your claim legitimizes the land assessment tax. Property taxes already take into consideration land, improvements, and in some states personal possessions.

Geoists believe in only one tax: the LVT.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mono tejano View Post
I don't know that it's done this way in all states, but here in Texas, all land that is not publicly owned, is taxed, whether that land is developed or not.

I own a few acres not far from Austin, and although it has literally no development at all except a fence around it (built by neighboring land owners) I still pay taxes. Granted these will go up if I ever develop that land in any way...

but, since I am paying something back to 'society', is this not compatible with this thery of 'geolibertarianism'?

is private land ownership really such a bad thing?
I'm a Texas resident as well.

The idea in itself is geoist. Geolibertarians are a branch of the geoist movement who believe in limited government in all other matters. All geoists, however (as far as I'm aware of), believe the LVT to be the only fair method of taxation. Now, since geolibertarians are identified as left-libertarians, they also are against the State protection around corporations, subsidies, intellectual property, and all other unethical systems. It's a sham to oppose corporate taxation and not corporate protectionism.

Private land ownership is not bad at all; however, you have to legitimize ownership. Is that so much to ask? In the past lands were acquired through brute force, particularly in Northern Europe and the Americans.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:49 PM
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He is essentually saying a flat land tax (not taxing more for prime value land over cheap waste land).

That is a bad idea, as the wealthy are going to gooble up the prime land, and the poor are going to be stuck with either crappy land or no land, but those with crappy land are going to be paying the same taxes for it as those with prime land, so that just increases the ecnomic divide between rich and poor. That also makes it so farmers are going to end up paying a lot of money in taxes, causeing food to go way up.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:56 PM
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Actually, that's not true. Property-less people will not be paying this tax - which inevitably means that, when the returns come in, they're getting more money. LVT doesn't clump all different land into one olive branch. It's an assessment tax. If I own land with a market value of $3,000 - and I pay 10% every year - that money is going to be divided up equally and carried around to everyone. The owner will receive a portion of his money back, while a property-less person will receive a portion of the owner's money for the first time.
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Last edited by GeneCosta : 06-06-2008 at 01:03 PM.
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