Four policeman remove a little ol lady from a meeting open to the public for dialogue because of a hand made sign "McCain = Bush"? I suppose she's lucky not to have been lit up in four directions with tasers. M



Protester's McCain sign nets date with a judge
By Joey Bunch
The Denver Post

Protester's McCain sign nets date with a judge - The Denver Post

Clutching a sign that read "McCain = Bush," Carol Kreck was removed from the atrium of the Denver Performing Arts Complex by four Denver police officers.

Kreck — a former Denver Post reporter who works part time as a librarian for an education think tank — said she was removed as she quizzed a police officer about whether he could deny her free-speech rights "on city property" by taking away her sign, while McCain supporters wore buttons inside.

Jenny Schiavone, a spokeswoman for the performing arts center, said the venue is city-owned rental property but is not legally defined as public property.

The liberal group ProgressNowAction had called the center before the event and asked about being inside the atrium, she said. The group was told it would have to rent space or use previously designated protest areas along the street, Schiavone said.

Detective John White, a spokesman for the Denver Police Department, said officers acted as they would have for any complaint on private property.

"Our officers received a signed complaint from a security guard at a private event and acted accordingly," he said.

Tom Kise, a spokesman for the McCain campaign, said that he did not know about Kreck's ouster but that the town-hall-style meeting was open to supporters and opponents.

"All the campaign asked for is a respectful dialogue," Kise said.

"What's disrespectful about pointing out that attendees voted for Bush and would be voting for McCain?" Kreck said of her sign.

That lil old lady absolutely has the right to express her opinion, and should not be censured. That picture is just repulsive. Poor old lady.

Oh, and they would be just as equally Gestapo had it been somebody with a "Obama = Kerry" sign.

I'm just a big time free speech guy, I guess.

__________________
There is no sig. There never was a sig. The sig is a lie.

It wasn't about free speech, it was about trespassing. Sure, it was the sign that drew attention to her, but it wasn't because of the sign that she recieved the ticket.

__________________
Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Trespassing on city property during an open to the public meeting.

Alrighty then.

__________________
There is no sig. There never was a sig. The sig is a lie.

Actually, it is not public property, and she was not attending the public meeting. She was asked to leave the premise, which would be like what, 30 feet? And she refused. If an officer tells you that you need to leave the premise, or get a trespassing ticket, and you refuse, don't be shocked when you get a trespassing ticket, and don't cry about it. It would be different if they just slapped her with the ticket and didn't first ask her to leave. She knew the options, she knew the consequences of the options and she made a choice with that knowledge.

__________________
Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Sooo.....if there's no civil liberties infraction, any reason this article was put here for discussion?

I guarantee you she wouldn't be "trespassing" if she didn't have that sign, that's my point. You, like the officer, are being selective in terms of justifying what happened, I think. Lots of other folks there in that photo, yet only one is "trespassing". No news article would even be written if this was so cut-and-dried, mothing to see here.

All of this just masks what I see as a larger, more troublesome trend of our candidates isolating themselves from dissent. "Designated protest areas", meaning out by the dumpsters.

I think it's a bad, bad sign for our future, whatever thin justification is used. With all the talk about how Bush lives in a hermetically sealed bubble, free from dissent or contradictions, it troubles me that our candidates appear all too willing to do the same.

Presidential candidates should never be free from challenge, as this sure seems to me.

__________________
There is no sig. There never was a sig. The sig is a lie.

I can garentee you that if she wasn't holding that sign, but shouting obsenities, she'd still get the trespassing. I'll agree that she should be allowed to protest there, but what should is not what is. Since she knew what was, she has to play by thoughs rules until they change. You can't go by what should be until it is. Until then you have to go by what is while trying to change it to what should be.

__________________
Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

If I unravelled that correctly, then I agree.

It certainly appears that she was targeted, which was likely the photo op intention to begin with. To handle her like that just looks bad. Overall, I think this sort of stuff has a chilling effect that I dislike, outside of the rights/legal aspects.

It leaves me with the impression of cowardice, to be honest. Invite her in, let her say her piece, answer her questions, demonstrtate that you aren't afraid of challenge, etc. Make it work for you, in answering why she is wrong to equate you with Bush.

Maybe I expect too much from my Presidential candidates........

__________________
There is no sig. There never was a sig. The sig is a lie.

If the owners (or renters) of the property want her and her sign out of there, they have the right to do so. Whether or not the powers that be in that situation support McCain or not, they still have the right to give her the boot. I surprised that after all those years of experience you'd think that she would understand. It's about expressing her opinion on property that isn't public... that's the issue. If someone was standing on my lawn and expressing their "freedom of speech" rights, I would do the same thing.

Also I suspect there was more to the story than this. Probably along the lines of "public disturbance" such as chanting and shouting. I could be wrong.

__________________
"...Follow the crystal star to the pyre of the flame; there exists the dwelling of the spreading fire. The heart of this life rests upon the fate of that place, and what begins there sends a contagion to the rest of the universe.
As long as the fire burns we shall never be free..." (The Shadows of Yavara, Final Reclamation)