Teenager from faith-healing family dies in Oregon - Page 17 - Political Fever

Chan · #**161** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 02:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Can;t say I'm fond of lobbyists, true. But this hypothetical,purist form you appear to espouse is rather primitive and ineffectual. (That may be your goal, of course)

Is it so primitive? Is it so ineffectual?

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We voted, didn't we? We knew exactly what Bush would continue to do.

Most Americans did not vote. I didn't vote for Bush.

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The problem isn't so much the government, it's the people.

Only in the sense that the American sheeple keep on stupidly putting their trust in the government.

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If I had more faith in the people to be intelligent, self-regulating, engaged, responsible and self-sufficient, I'd be more inclined to agree with you on things. I think you assume a certain level of competency and savvy in people that I am not convinced exists.

Yes, I do think people have the potential to be smarter than you given them credit for but they must be set free from the shackles of the present system in order to discover this for themselves.

Skerlnik · #**162** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan

Is it so primitive? Is it so ineffectual?

Primitive, yes. Life is far more complex and nuanced, these days.

I'm not arguing that the Constitution's a bad thing at all. They created an amazing document and it's held up quite well. But, to turn back the clock and strip away centuries of progress and amendments is a little goofy, I think.

I had a 286 computer at one point. I had no qualms about getting a different system when the time came. I think it would be rather foolish of me to continue to try to upgrade and use that old 286, today.

Progress may be quite good. Progress may even be bad. One thing that it is, is inevitable.

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Most Americans did not vote. I didn't vote for Bush.

Now that is indeed true, and a problem. I do wish more people would vote, and I am very much in favor of having a three day holiday, Fri, Sat and Sun for voting. This Tuesday business is bogus.

I do typically vote, despite having to hold my nose most of the time at the pathetic candidates. So, ultimately then, since you admit to be unwilling to participate in the democracy you live in... I begin to understand why you consider yourself separate from society.

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Only in the sense that the American sheeple keep on stupidly putting their trust in the government.

The alternative being what, rebellion? Lemme know when you attack, I want a front-row seat.

Government's the only thing keeping us in line. we'd tear each other apart in an anarchistic, brutal free-for all, otherwise. I don't trust people that much, so it's best to have a referee enforcing some rules in the game, methinks.

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Yes, I do think people have the potential to be smarter than you given them credit for but they must be set free from the shackles of the present system in order to discover this for themselves.

Maybe. And there's an awful lot I'd like to change, personally. If you feel "shackled" under the most free, capitalistic, progressive, individualistic nation in history, I just don't know what to tell you.

But laws, like stereotypes, don't materialize out of thin air. People themselves ask for regulations. We earn it.

Donkey Jote · #**163** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Primitive, yes. Life is far more complex and nuanced, these days.

I'm not arguing that the Constitution's a bad thing at all. They created an amazing document and it's held up quite well. But, to turn back the clock and strip away centuries of progress and amendments is a little goofy, I think.

I had a 286 computer at one point. I had no qualms about getting a different system when the time came. I think it would be rather foolish of me to continue to try to upgrade and use that old 286, today.

Progress may be quite good. Progress may even be bad. One thing that it is, is inevitable.

*cough*WindowsVista*cough*

;)

Actually, I agree with you, but I couldn't pass up the chance.

xjoe3x · #**164** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Primitive, yes. Life is far more complex and nuanced, these days.

I'm not arguing that the Constitution's a bad thing at all. They created an amazing document and it's held up quite well. But, to turn back the clock and strip away centuries of progress and amendments is a little goofy, I think.

I had a 286 computer at one point. I had no qualms about getting a different system when the time came. I think it would be rather foolish of me to continue to try to upgrade and use that old 286, today.

Progress may be quite good. Progress may even be bad. One thing that it is, is inevitable.

Now that is indeed true, and a problem. I do wish more people would vote, and I am very much in favor of having a three day holiday, Fri, Sat and Sun for voting. This Tuesday business is bogus.

I do typically vote, despite having to hold my nose most of the time at the pathetic candidates. So, ultimately then, since you admit to be unwilling to participate in the democracy you live in... I begin to understand why you consider yourself separate from society.

The alternative being what, rebellion? Lemme know when you attack, I want a front-row seat.

Government's the only thing keeping us in line. we'd tear each other apart in an anarchistic, brutal free-for all, otherwise. I don't trust people that much, so it's best to have a referee enforcing some rules in the game, methinks.

Maybe. And there's an awful lot I'd like to change, personally. If you feel "shackled" under the most free, capitalistic, progressive, individualistic nation in history, I just don't know what to tell you.

But laws, like stereotypes, don't materialize out of thin air. People themselves ask for regulations. We earn it.

The amendment are important. They were allowed for the constitution to stay with the times while still giving the government limits.

Chan · #**165** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Primitive, yes. Life is far more complex and nuanced, these days.

And unnecessarily so.

Quote:

I'm not arguing that the Constitution's a bad thing at all. They created an amazing document and it's held up quite well. But, to turn back the clock and strip away centuries of progress and amendments is a little goofy, I think.

I would turn back the clock on all of the unconstitutional "progress" and would repeal a few (but not all) of the amendments.

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I had a 286 computer at one point. I had no qualms about getting a different system when the time came. I think it would be rather foolish of me to continue to try to upgrade and use that old 286, today.

But you didn't steal that different system.

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Progress may be quite good. Progress may even be bad. One thing that it is, is inevitable.

As long as people follow the process.

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Now that is indeed true, and a problem. I do wish more people would vote, and I am very much in favor of having a three day holiday, Fri, Sat and Sun for voting. This Tuesday business is bogus.

I'm in favor of returning Presidential elections to the way it was originally.

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I do typically vote, despite having to hold my nose most of the time at the pathetic candidates. So, ultimately then, since you admit to be unwilling to participate in the democracy you live in... I begin to understand why you consider yourself separate from society.

I don't live in a democracy, I live in a constitutional republic! And you damned well had better go back to elementary school and learn how to read! What I said was that I didn't vote FOR BUSH, not that I didn't vote at all.

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The alternative being what, rebellion? Lemme know when you attack, I want a front-row seat.

The alternative being a return to what the founding fathers gave us.

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Government's the only thing keeping us in line. we'd tear each other apart in an anarchistic, brutal free-for all, otherwise. I don't trust people that much, so it's best to have a referee enforcing some rules in the game, methinks.

It's really sad that you have such blind faith in government!

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Maybe. And there's an awful lot I'd like to change, personally. If you feel "shackled" under the most free, capitalistic, progressive, individualistic nation in history, I just don't know what to tell you.

It is no longer free, progressive or individualistic.

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But laws, like stereotypes, don't materialize out of thin air. People themselves ask for regulations. We earn it.

But if they're contrary to the Constitution, they're illegal!

Skerlnik · #**166** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan

I would turn back the clock on all of the unconstitutional "progress" and would repeal a few (but not all) of the amendments.
But you didn't steal that different system.

Oh, no, the basic system is quite good, no question. I am curious: which Amendments do you dislike?

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I don't live in a democracy, I live in a constitutional republic! And you damned well had better go back to elementary school and learn how to read! What I said was that I didn't vote FOR BUSH, not that I didn't vote at all.

I left the Bush part out of it. Didn't respond to that.

Belligerence for the sake of belligerence is unbecoming.

My point was that since you don't even vote, it's no wonder you feel everything's inflicted upon you. You have kind of a passive victim thing going on. But, I hear there's this island in the Shetlands.......

You complain and whine, yet choose not to participate in even the barest avenue of input the citizen has to influence society.

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The alternative being a return to what the founding fathers gave us.

And yet, I am the unrealistic dreamer........

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It's really sad that you have such blind faith in government!

*shrug* It's been pretty good to me so far. Some tweaks, some modifications, here and there. Blind faith, heck no, but, I trust government far more than I do regular people.

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It is no longer free, progressive or individualistic.

Maybe not to the extent you'd like, but if things are so irredeemably horrible.......

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But if they're contrary to the Constitution, they're illegal!

When regulations are contrary, they get reviewed by the Judiciary and overturned. When the courts aren't stacked to the right, politically, that is, and inclined to let anything the President does pass as okay.

What all this has to do with some kid dying from faith healing, I dunno.

Skerlnik · #**167** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey Jote

*cough*WindowsVista*cough*

Actually, I agree with you, but I couldn't pass up the chance.

Eeevviilllll.....

Besides, Vista ISN'T progress at all!

Chan · #**168** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Oh, no, the basic system is quite good, no question. I am curious: which Amendments do you dislike?

12th Amendment, 16th-18th Amendments, and 20th Amendment.

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I left the Bush part out of it. Didn't respond to that.

Belligerence for the sake of belligerence is unbecoming.

And because you left the Bush part out of it, you falsely accused me of not voting AT ALL.

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My point was that since you don't even vote, it's no wonder you feel everything's inflicted upon you. You have kind of a passive victim thing going on. But, I hear there's this island in the Shetlands.......

See above. I said that I didn't vote FOR BUSH, not that I don't vote! Damn it, get it right!

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You complain and whine, yet choose not to participate in even the barest avenue of input the citizen has to influence society.

You really do have piss-poor reading comprehension skills, don't you? Now, show me where I said that I don't vote (as opposed to saying that most Americans don't vote).

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And yet, I am the unrealistic dreamer........

You are.

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*shrug* It's been pretty good to me so far. Some tweaks, some modifications, here and there. Blind faith, heck no, but, I trust government far more than I do regular people.

Definitely blind faith.

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Maybe not to the extent you'd like, but if things are so irredeemably horrible.......

They will continue to be irredeemably horrible until people stop voting for Democrats and Republicans.

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When regulations are contrary, they get reviewed by the Judiciary and overturned. When the courts aren't stacked to the right, politically, that is, and inclined to let anything the President does pass as okay.

You are so full of crap! The judiciary very often makes decisions that run counter to the Constitution itself and has been doing so ever since Marbury v. Madison.

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What all this has to do with some kid dying from faith healing, I dunno.

It has to do with whether the government has the right to dictate to parents that they must force their children to be subjected to medical procedures.

Skerlnik · #**169** (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 05:06 PM

Never mind. This is pointless, Chan.

Apologies to whoever bothers to read our drivel.

Chan · #**170** (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

Never mind. This is pointless, Chan.

Apologies to whoever bothers to read our drivel.

Well, excuse me for answering your response to my earlier post!

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