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Civil Liberties and Civil Rights Discuss Civil Liberties and Civil rights here. Also discuss discrimination against minority groups as well, and ways to solve these issues.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 06:31 PM
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I have no problem either way: Either we try them in American military courts as POWs, with all the full trimmings, etc., OR we let the UN and International courts deal with it as they see fit, us being the plaintiffs with the burdens of proof.

We shouldn't be talking out of both sides of our mouths about democracy and how wonderful our way of life is, when we have this bizarre status thing at Gitmo. As the saying goes, s*** or get off the pot. It's such an unnecessary black mark at a time when we should be above reproach.

I am glad we're starting to move on this. This limbo thing is just unconscionable.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:29 PM
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it was the right decision. it doesnt matter that they are not americans, but that americans currently have control and custody of them against their will. they are kept on an american base - and therefore do have a right to go before a court.

that doesnt mean the court will release them, but the US has to prove why they are being kept. either charge them or release them - it is immoral to keep them forever, and is contrary to our principals.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:51 PM
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OUR principals as Americans in total in contrast to Bush / Cheney and their Republicans.

Last edited by Michael : 06-12-2008 at 08:54 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 09:58 PM
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Guess the repukes are sorry they stuffed the court now! Blow back.... lol

And it will cost the US more than they can afford while every penny will buy bullets (hopefully only bullets) to kill our troops. What a messed up govt., we have one hand not knowing what the other is doing and each and everyone pi**ing on the others leg. lol
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Old 06-13-2008, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space_Coyote View Post
Agreed.


The "terrorists" at Gitmo should however pose a difficult problem to address. They're not POW's in the traditional sense, but by the same token are not subject to US law. The solution to this problem would be not to invade foreign countries without a declaration of war (hint, Constitution, hint).
Declaring them enemy combatants put them under the protection of the Geneva Conventions (at least in theory, though Guantanamo doesn't appear to be Geneva-compliant). This so-called "war on terror(ism)" is a crock of b.s. anyway! Even the CIA admits that 9/11 happened in retaliation for nearly 50 years of American interference in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathon435 View Post
So, they are just as deserving of justice as anyone else and have the same rights as anyone else.
Justice is giving them what they deserve, i.e. if they're terrorists they deserve death. But your response is really stupid if you think about it: how would you like to have a bunch of people who don't like the UK coming to the UK and demanding the rights and privileges of UK citizenship? The Supreme Court decision opened up a Pandora's Box that will be very difficult to close.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnEsthesia View Post
The difference between the attitudes of people on this thread seems to be that conservatives (generally) think the detainees are all guilty and the more liberals seem to feel that we should not presume guilt just because they were picked up by the military.
The issue isn't guilt or innocence. If they're "enemy combatants" then they are governed by the Geneva Conventions (not that Guantanamo is necessarily compliant with the Conventions) - they are not entitled to access to American courts. If they're not enemy combatants then what the hell are they?
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2ga View Post
it was the right decision. it doesnt matter that they are not americans, but that americans currently have control and custody of them against their will. they are kept on an american base - and therefore do have a right to go before a court.

that doesnt mean the court will release them, but the US has to prove why they are being kept. either charge them or release them - it is immoral to keep them forever, and is contrary to our principals.
So, I guess your ridiculous thinking is that if we had captured Germans in World War II we should have brought them to the United States and given them the rights of American citizens by giving them a trial in a civilian court?
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Justice is giving them what they deserve, i.e. if they're terrorists they deserve death. But your response is really stupid if you think about it: how would you like to have a bunch of people who don't like the UK coming to the UK and demanding the rights and privileges of UK citizenship? The Supreme Court decision opened up a Pandora's Box that will be very difficult to close.
I can understand putting prisoners of war into a secure facility restricting their freedom of movement but onyl until they can be released safely home. And if we're talking about suspected terrorists well they deserve a fair trial just like anyone else and the same rights extended to other suspected criminals-and they should remain innocent until proven guilty.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2008, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathon435 View Post
I can understand putting prisoners of war into a secure facility restricting their freedom of movement but onyl until they can be released safely home.
You don't release prisoners of war until after the war. When will this so-called "war on terror(ism)" end?

Quote:
And if we're talking about suspected terrorists well they deserve a fair trial just like anyone else and the same rights extended to other suspected criminals-and they should remain innocent until proven guilty.
Terrorists are not criminals, they're enemy combatants. They have, in effect, declared war on an entire nation. If terrorists (what you folks might have called the American colonists if the Revolution had taken place in the 20th or 21st century) are merely criminals then there's the whole issue of extradition (since many of these terrorists were taken from Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere outside the US) and into whose custody these terrorists should have been surrendered. If they're criminals then the military should not have been involved but, instead, law enforcement agencies.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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