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Civil Liberties and Civil Rights Discuss Civil Liberties and Civil rights here. Also discuss discrimination against minority groups as well, and ways to solve these issues.

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  #301 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 07:17 PM
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Why would we leave education to the whim of the local community? Around here, the senior vote is bitching and bitching about having to pay for services they no longer use like the schools. They want parents (because we are all so much more wealthy than they are) to pay for the schools ourselves using a pay to play system, where we have to foot the bill for music and arts, sports, etc. I know for a fact that they would scream ageism if I suggested that they pay to play for the town services like the new senior center, the food delivery and the senior rates at the town dump and other places. Seems as if they want me to pay for THEM, but lookie there, they could care less about anyone else.
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  #302 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 07:36 PM
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If government governs best when it governs least, then no government at all should be paradise.

*looks at Somalia. Nope. That principle's obviously an exaggeration.
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  #303 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnEsthesia View Post
Why would we leave education to the whim of the local community? Around here, the senior vote is bitching and bitching about having to pay for services they no longer use like the schools. They want parents (because we are all so much more wealthy than they are) to pay for the schools ourselves using a pay to play system, where we have to foot the bill for music and arts, sports, etc. I know for a fact that they would scream ageism if I suggested that they pay to play for the town services like the new senior center, the food delivery and the senior rates at the town dump and other places. Seems as if they want me to pay for THEM, but lookie there, they could care less about anyone else.
Nailed it.

Most people fail to account for the indirect benefits they enjoy from a healthy, educated population. Education is, by definition, an investment in the future. The quality of an education doesn't become apparent until 20 years down the road.

If people resent having to pony up taxes for schools that they don't "use", why should they get the benefits of an educated, working, less crime-prone population? People who resent public education are freeloaders, plain and simple.

The whole point of public education is a common, baseline level of education for every child. It staggers me that many people do not seem to value that.
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  #304 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008, 01:00 AM
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Communities have exerted their dominance over neglectful parents for thousands of years; indeed common concern for the young predates humanity if you look at the actions of such primates as the Bonobos. Parents are not allowed to beat their infant, give him cigarettes, use him for sexual purposes, verbally abuse him, or keep the poor boy uneducated. There is no "liberty lover" argument here. You and your child are separate entities. There should be a state-mandated minimum education level. Homeschoolers, public school students, and private school students should all be required to pass this test before graduating.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjoe3x View Post
Nothing of relevance stated until "Teachers..."
Some teachers are easy targets because they are BAD at teaching.
There are bad apples to every trade. You're just selective.
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  #306 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
There are bad apples to every trade. You're just selective.
That is why they are easy targets, when you are bad that happens.
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  #307 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2008, 12:49 PM
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Except a lot of teachers are not the real problem. They just get the blame. Because they are obvious, easy targets.

No one wants to blame the parents or little johnny. They're angels who always do their work, study, come in for help, and care about the subject.

OH wait...
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:55 PM
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The problem is when all teachers are blaimed because of a few "bad apples," and that goes for the parents and students too. But as teachers are the ones that are employed they are the easier ones to correct.
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:34 PM
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If our automatic response to a problem is to ditch the whole thing, rather than correct it, I'm gettng really worried about the future. Yeah, sure, the public education system is in dire need of serious attention, but is the answer to just punt and have every individual scramble for whatever smattering of education they can get? I think that's rather selfish and cowardly.

For those that have expressed a disdain for standardization or acheivement levels/testing, I just don't understand what the objection is. Would you go to a doctor who had no credentials? Why wouldn't we want to increase the performance standards and accreditation for teachers across the board? The idea that parents have the qualifications and skills to teach is simply ludicrous.

I am not against private schools, and I'm skeptical about homeschooling. But, for the vast majority of regular kids with regular parents across the nation, there needs to be a solid, challenging, rigorous public educational system.
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  #310 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post
If our automatic response to a problem is to ditch the whole thing, rather than correct it, I'm gettng really worried about the future. Yeah, sure, the public education system is in dire need of serious attention, but is the answer to just punt and have every individual scramble for whatever smattering of education they can get? I think that's rather selfish and cowardly.
Sometimes things are so broken that they cannot be fixed. So, yes, sometimes you just have to scrap them. But the issue here is whether government should even be in the education business.

Quote:
For those that have expressed a disdain for standardization or acheivement levels/testing, I just don't understand what the objection is. Would you go to a doctor who had no credentials? Why wouldn't we want to increase the performance standards and accreditation for teachers across the board? The idea that parents have the qualifications and skills to teach is simply ludicrous.
It's not a disdain for standardation levels, etc. it's disdain for government sticking its nose in where it doesn't belong. The metaphoric marketplace is sufficient to bring about standardization and the like.

Quote:
I am not against private schools, and I'm skeptical about homeschooling. But, for the vast majority of regular kids with regular parents across the nation, there needs to be a solid, challenging, rigorous public educational system.
Why must it be public (government-run)?
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