Should education be mandatory and state-run? - Page 21 - Political Fever

GeneCosta · #**201** (**permalink**) 05-18-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjoe3x

Because they are there children. It is there responsibility to decide what is best, not yours. They should decide if they want to home school there children or send them to private school, or have them trained in a trade, or teach them to take over the family business.

Children are not property. A parent cannot mold their child's future into whatever dreadful thing they want no more than they can take their children to bed with them and conduct inappropriate sexual acts. The child is an individual whose lack of cognitive and critical thinking necessities caretaking - if the parent can prove himself/herself to be good both to the child and the community, then so be it.

I'm not interested in "parent's rights and responsibilities." Rights don't exist. They're beliefs established thoroughly inside a community with backing from guns. I'm interested in the child and the child only.

If a parent were to teach their child nothing but obedience to Christ for 14 years (no math, no science, no social skills), I'd happily get the court's approval and burst in to take that child away. His future is in stake.

GeneCosta · #**202** (**permalink**) 05-18-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

As I mentioned before, I would like to see a voucher system. What that means is parents have the amount of money that goes to educate their children in the public school system. They can home school, request a district transfer to a school they prefer (for example, near where they work) or it could go to a private school.

The one hang up is using federal money for sectarian schools. And the problem has been most people writing up voucher proposals have a religious or even racial agenda.

This is the reality of public schools. The largest part of every dollar is spend on transportation and administration. Transportations is the largest part of Special Edcation for the students that need special adapted buses with wheelchair lifts, etc... For most larger school districts, administration takes a enormous amount of money. It is not uncommon for such districts with Superintendents making $175k to $200k, then they will require a high paid head secretary (75k) and Assistant Superintendent ($110-$125k). Then you have Principals ($75k-$100k), and Assistant or Vice Principals ($65k-$80k). A veteran teacher will make $60-$80k). Then some teachers have Teacher Assistants / Paraprofessionals to help hand English as a second language students or special needs students ($10.50 p hr to $15 p hr partime).

The classroom instruction itself recieves pennies on every dollar spent on education.

And school districts in rapid growth regions cannot build new schools fast enough to keep up with the increase in enrollment and area population.

Nationwide, the No Child Left Behind bureaucracy has become a gang of high test score fixate Nazis. Enrichment programs and programs based on science experiments, art and craft tie in activies, acting out plays representing periods of history, the school garden, etc... are becoming rare while teaching using drill and kill techniques teach toward specific questions on the academic tests. Most of those questions require filling in bubbles in multiple choice questions. So students are becoming skilled bubblers but are lost with their creativity, or high critical thinking skills.

The real life situation can be emulated best in schools by students forming cooperative learning teams to solve problems as they would do on most jobs. Even a construction job from start to finish would require mathematics and geometry. This style of instruction is the best match to a real world situation in a career job, but the priority of No Child Left Behind is to crank out skilled bubblers.

I really think the answer is at the STATE level and coming up with a comprehensive voucher system that is not generated from specific religious or special interest groups.

I'm not allowing one cent of my money going towards religious education, especially since vouchers have - historically - pushed up prices, burdened the working class, dumbed down the population, and created a grocery list of new scandals. The fact half our country believes in creationism is a testament to the backwardness of little regulation.

xjoe3x · #**203** (**permalink**) 05-18-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnEsthesia

Because there are a sadly larger than one would like percentage of parents who just do not care. The only reason they force their kids to school is because they know THEY will get into trouble.

That is your opinion on human nature, I believe it to be wrong.

xjoe3x · #**204** (**permalink**) 05-18-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

Children are not property. A parent cannot mold their child's future into whatever dreadful thing they want no more than they can take their children to bed with them and conduct inappropriate sexual acts. The child is an individual whose lack of cognitive and critical thinking necessities caretaking - if the parent can prove himself/herself to be good both to the child and the community, then so be it.

I'm not interested in "parent's rights and responsibilities." Rights don't exist. They're beliefs established thoroughly inside a community with backing from guns. I'm interested in the child and the child only.

If a parent were to teach their child nothing but obedience to Christ for 14 years (no math, no science, no social skills), I'd happily get the court's approval and burst in to take that child away. His future is in stake.

They can mold their future into what they want to an extent. Many of the child's rights and choices are in the hands of the parents, where they should be. The parent does not have to prove them self good enough, they can prove them self incapable of parenting by beating the child and sexually molesting the child.

I believe in rights even if I was completely alone. If you do not believe in rights then you should not be worrying about the "rights" of the child. I would happily do nothing. I also would happily call the parents a complete idiots if I ever met them.

xjoe3x · #**205** (**permalink**) 05-18-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

The fact half our country believes in creationism is a testament to the backwardness of little regulation.

No that means half our country believes in religion.
Ya we should ban religion and make everyone do and think as you say.

Michael · #**206** (**permalink**) 05-18-2008, 01:30 PM

Not sending kids to school would mean parents that are going to work would need to have an alternative. Most of the families I know of REQUIRE both husband and wife being employed if not being employed at a career level job making decent money. And due to the economy right now, that is to survive at a middle class level, not due to wanting an affluent lifestyle. And the cost of gas commuting to and from work is sucking the life out of their paychecks.

Chan · #**207** (**permalink**) 05-19-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneCosta

I fail to see where parents have a illegitimate right to keep their children ignorant. An educated individual is the best solution to the world's problem; I'm not interested in flaky morality.

They don't have an "illegitimate" right to keep their children ignorant, they have a legitimate right to raise their children as they see fit.

Chan · #**208** (**permalink**) 05-19-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mono tejano

as a practitioner of this thankless profession, teaching that is, I can say that based on my experience, without government involvement (state and federal) we'd quickly revert to a medieval type of 'education' where some (those with money) get a phenomenal education, while the rest of us get 'left behind'.

And your point is?

I am so damn sick and tired of this communist/socialist notion that everything must be equal and everything must be the same! I don't give a rat's behind if one kid receives a better education than another kid. If your (not referring to you specifically) family can afford better education, great! If not, well, maybe you need to sell that big screen television, get rid of the Escalade, and stop buying $200 sneakers for your kids; then, just maybe, if you also get off your lazy backside and get a job instead of collecting Welfare, you might be able to send your kid to a better school than the one the government provides you for free (because you don't pay any taxes).

Oregon Elephant · #**209** (**permalink**) 05-19-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan

And your point is?

I am so damn sick and tired of this communist/socialist notion that everything must be equal and everything must be the same! I don't give a rat's behind if one kid receives a better education than another kid. If your (not referring to you specifically) family can afford better education, great! If not, well, maybe you need to sell that big screen television, get rid of the Escalade, and stop buying $200 sneakers for your kids; then, just maybe, if you also get off your lazy backside and get a job instead of collecting Welfare, you might be able to send your kid to a better school than the one the government provides you for free (because you don't pay any taxes).

You're making a generalization (and a bad one at that) that the poor in this nation have big screen TVs, Escalades, $200 sneakers, and don't work. That it completely boogus. If you have the money, go ahead and send your child to a private school of your choice, but don't take away the public schools that the poor needs to get the opportunity to get out of being poor and have a better life than their parents.

AnnEsthesia · #**210** (**permalink**) 05-19-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

You're making a generalization (and a bad one at that) that the poor in this nation have big screen TVs, Escalades, $200 sneakers, and don't work. That it completely boogus. If you have the money, go ahead and send your child to a private school of your choice, but don't take away the public schools that the poor needs to get the opportunity to get out of being poor and have a better life than their parents.

Very well said. Not all poor folk are scamming the system or are drug dealers or what have you. Most are just hard working blue collar folk just trying to make a living and just scraping by.

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