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Civil Liberties and Civil Rights Discuss Civil Liberties and Civil rights here. Also discuss discrimination against minority groups as well, and ways to solve these issues.

View Poll Results: Should gay marriage be legalized in the United States?
Yes, legalize it everywhere. 17 48.57%
No, ban it everywhere. 1 2.86%
Leave it up to the states. 3 8.57%
Civil unions for gays, marriage for straights. 2 5.71%
Take marriage out of gov't, and give everyone equal civil unions. 12 34.29%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2007, 11:41 PM
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Option 5. with a caveat.

The state governments can only issue civil unions to a pair of legal adults for the purposes of exchanging property and creating joint households (like taxation, child custody, etc). Then, simply expedite the name-change process for civil unions who have chosen to go the traditional route of marriage (woman takes man's name, flowers, laughter, etc).

There, now everybody is happy.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2007, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman15 View Post
Option 5. with a caveat.

The state governments can only issue civil unions to a pair of legal adults for the purposes of exchanging property and creating joint households (like taxation, child custody, etc). Then, simply expedite the name-change process for civil unions who have chosen to go the traditional route of marriage (woman takes man's name, flowers, laughter, etc).

There, now everybody is happy.
Would the name-change process deal be only for heterosexual couples?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2007, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesus H. Lincoln View Post
Would the name-change process deal be only for heterosexual couples?
No, it'd be for anybody interested. Usually it's the traditional marriage crowd that harps up that point, so I listed them specifically. But no, any civilly joined couple should have an expedited name-change (relative to simple desires for name-changes by individuals, which should be investigated a bit more thoroughly).
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:54 AM
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I say get religion out of the institution of marriage. They muscled in on that long standing state interest and are now demanding monopoly powers.

When religions lose their religious influence over society, they will always seek to expand their power over secular matters instead.
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:26 PM
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The government should get out of the marriage business entirely - including these so-called "civil unions" (which is just another name for marriage). If people want to enter into these kinds of couplings (marriage/civil unions - regardless of whether it's an opposite-sex couple or a same-sex couple), that's their business - they should not be given any special rights or recognitions based on such couplings.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
The government should get out of the marriage business entirely - including these so-called "civil unions" (which is just another name for marriage). If people want to enter into these kinds of couplings (marriage/civil unions - regardless of whether it's an opposite-sex couple or a same-sex couple), that's their business - they should not be given any special rights or recognitions based on such couplings.
you are obviously quite young, and have no idea the ramifications that take place with couples who do not have the legal rights, recognitions, and responsibilities that are afforded to married couples.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:07 PM
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Listen, it all boils down to equal rights. Christianity does not own marriage. Pagans in Rome had marriage before the rise of christianity. So it boils down to equality. So grant legal marriage to everyone. That is the way that people will be equal. In theory, the government getting rid of marriage altogether is good, but that would just make people say something like "Damn gays made it so that I couldnt be married to my wife".
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
you are obviously quite young
You are obviously quite wrong.

Quote:
, and have no idea the ramifications that take place with couples who do not have the legal rights, recognitions, and responsibilities that are afforded to married couples.
Why must governments grant special rights and recognitions to people based on their choice to enter into certain relationships (in this case, marriage; keep in mind I'm referring to both gay and straight relationships)? Many of the special recognitions can be addressed through legal contracts such as power of attorney, living wills, etc.
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"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmaester View Post
Listen, it all boils down to equal rights. Christianity does not own marriage. Pagans in Rome had marriage before the rise of christianity. So it boils down to equality. So grant legal marriage to everyone. That is the way that people will be equal. In theory, the government getting rid of marriage altogether is good, but that would just make people say something like "Damn gays made it so that I couldnt be married to my wife".
Why should anyone (gay, straight or otherwise) be granted special rights and recognitions based on their choice to couple?
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
The government mustn't interfere with the churches. That's something that we sometimes fail to remember. We are often--rightly--quick to condemn the church's encroachment into government, but not as quick to condemn the opposite.

Therefore, letting gays get married is each individual church's decision. All the legal benefits of marriage must be extended to all people, however.
I have reservations about this. Too many religious fanatics want to exclude gay people from participation in religious ceremonies and access to church communities.

If I were gay, I'd sue the *** off them for trying to deprive me of my civil rights...everyone has the right to pursuit of happiness...Religion is not of interest to me, but there have been examples where gay people were so traumatized by religious exclusion that they have committed suicide.

IMO they should have the same right to marry as anyone else.
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