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Civil Liberties and Civil Rights Discuss Civil Liberties and Civil rights here. Also discuss discrimination against minority groups as well, and ways to solve these issues.

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2008, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by miriya View Post
humans are nothing but DNA
Maybe so, but you don't look at someone and say "That guy looks like he has mixed DNA". In most people's lives, "race" is determined by physical characteristics. Most people don't take a tongue swab and do a lab analysis.
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by FXASHUN View Post
When you consider that physical traits of "race" can be pretty much erased depending on who the parents are, it's really only "skin deep".
This directly 'contradicts" what you said in post #44....are blacks actually better at basketball, and dismal at hockey, and least likely to attend MIT, or is it only "skin deep", and dependent on who one's parents are? Which is it?
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Old 02-08-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FXASHUN View Post
Maybe so, but you don't look at someone and say "That guy looks like he has mixed DNA". In most people's lives, "race" is determined by physical characteristics. Most people don't take a tongue swab and do a lab analysis.
"Race is determined by physical characteristics", which are merely an adaptation to climate conditions. Eskimos would find it difficult to adapt to life in sub-Saharan Africa....and Africans would find it equally difficult to thrive in the Bering Sea....but, everyone knows that man is the most adaptable creature on Earth...
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2008, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
How pedestrian and over-simplistic...of course "race" exists...because some people would rather emphasize our differences over our similarities, and use those "imagined' differences to separate, segregate, and mistreat those whom they deem as "different"...it's the case that was made for the justification of slavery...which people are all too willing to forget, and pretend like it never happened.
For you to make assertions which seem to support the status quo, there are always exceptions to the rule, imagined or not.....whites play basketball, blacks play hockey, golf, and ice skate, and blacks and whites go to MIT, and Cornel West teaches at Princeton. Where would the exclusivity be?
Race IS pedestrian and simplistic though in every day life. I think when you complicate it is when you run into issues.

It's a big deal in this country because we are all piled here on top of each other. This country's founders murdered the indigenous people of this country and repopulated it with a hodgepodge of whatever they could find. "Back in the day" white Americans were even racist against different "versions" of each other.
I know there are black hockey players and white basketball players....There are also black serial killers, but in the U.S. a vast majority of them are white. A vast majority basketball players are black. And a vast majority of hockey players are white. Some stereotypes ring true.
And as for the MIT analogy, maybe I got the higher learning institution wrong...
A Parody Raises Questions of Bias in Admissions - The Tech
While Asian-Americans account for five percent of the population in the United States, they account for greater numbers at prestigious institutions like Harvard (18 percent), Stanford (24 percent), and the University of California at Berkeley (46 percent). At Princeton, they accounted for 13 percent of undergraduates last year, and make up 14 percent of the current freshman class.
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FXASHUN View Post
Race IS pedestrian and simplistic though in every day life. I think when you complicate it is when you run into issues.

It's a big deal in this country because we are all piled here on top of each other. This country's founders murdered the indigenous people of this country and repopulated it with a hodgepodge of whatever they could find. "Back in the day" white Americans were even racist against different "versions" of each other.
I know there are black hockey players and white basketball players....There are also black serial killers, but in the U.S. a vast majority of them are white. A vast majority basketball players are black. And a vast majority of hockey players are white. Some stereotypes ring true.
And as for the MIT analogy, maybe I got the higher learning institution wrong...
A Parody Raises Questions of Bias in Admissions - The Tech
While Asian-Americans account for five percent of the population in the United States, they account for greater numbers at prestigious institutions like Harvard (18 percent), Stanford (24 percent), and the University of California at Berkeley (46 percent). At Princeton, they accounted for 13 percent of undergraduates last year, and make up 14 percent of the current freshman class.
And I say "race" as context is what is complex, because it's based on the false presumption that we, as human beings, are radically different from each other, which we are not. If you want to believe the lie, then, by all means, go right ahead...and you fall into the brainwashing that has occurred since slavery...that we (blacks) are, somehow, "inferior", and cannot do anything we set our minds out to do. Then when we are successful, and prosperous, is only time when we are given "carte blanche" or become the objects of envy, and tabloid journalism, because that is what is valued in America...money and celebrity. People (especially some white people) love to see other successful or prosperous people (namely, "blacks"), tumble and fall....as the O.J. Simpson case pointed out...which was celebrity, race, wealth and presumed power all rolled into one. Before he killed his wife...white folks loved them some O.J....they loved to see him hopping over seats in the Hertz commercials, on his way to the airport terminal...they loved him in the Naked Gun movies...oh, but didn't the love evaporate when word got out that he may have killed his wife....not O.J., not the beloved football star....and when he got off, the real truth came out...the love was superficial...the stuff of unreality...he became valueless...and a pariah, and a pointed lesson on race and celebrity in America.
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
And I say "race" as context is what is complex, because it's based on the false presumption that we, as human beings, are radically different from each other, which we are not. If you want to believe the lie, then, by all means, go right ahead...and you fall into the brainwashing that has occurred since slavery...that we (blacks) are, somehow, "inferior", and cannot do anything we set our minds out to do. Then when we are successful, and prosperous, is only time when we are given "carte blanche" or become the objects of envy, and tabloid journalism, because that is what is valued in America...money and celebrity. People (especially some white people) love to see other successful or prosperous people (namely, "blacks"), tumble and fall....as the O.J. Simpson case pointed out...which was celebrity, race, wealth and presumed power all rolled into one. Before he killed his wife...white folks loved them some O.J....they loved to see him hopping over seats in the Hertz commercials, on his way to the airport terminal...they loved him in the Naked Gun movies...oh, but didn't the love evaporate when word got out that he may have killed his wife....not O.J., not the beloved football star....and when he got off, the real truth came out...the love was superficial...the stuff of unreality...he became valueless...and a pariah, and a pointed lesson on race and celebrity in America.
IMHO, you come across as bitter and jaded. If you would read the posts between Miriya and I, you will see that I don't think race is much more than skin deep. But to deny that some races seem to have some advantages in some things, would be denial.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel inferior to anyone. But I do respect and admire someone who can calculate the orbit of a asteroid 30 years in advance, build a skyscraper from scratch, and run marathons for a living. And each of those situations has a race that seems to excel in them.
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FXASHUN View Post
IMHO, you come across as bitter and jaded. If you would read the posts between Miriya and I, you will see that I don't think race is much more than skin deep. But to deny that some races seem to have some advantages in some things, would be denial.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel inferior to anyone. But I do respect and admire someone who can calculate the orbit of a asteroid 30 years in advance, build a skyscraper from scratch, and run marathons for a living. And each of those situations has a race that seems to excel in them.
Ah, but your premise seems to suggest that differences in "race", mean "clear-cut" advantages for some, and bleak prospects for others....something, I refuse to accept.
You say you don't feel inferior to anyone...yet, there are people on this very board who would tell you that you are. There are those who think you are nothing short of a monkey, and wish you would migrate back to Africa. Sad, but true. Of course, not to seem un-PC, there are those who will rush to deny this exists..."publicly", but in the privacy of their homes, and rooms, feel in sync with what I've alleged..."cept, they would never admit it..."publicly", although "some" would.

I am not bitter, nor am I jaded....on the contrary, I'm a hopeless, eternal optimist...and I believe in people's propensity to do "the right thing", despite the protestations of some members on this board.
I have friends who are white, and are "salt of the Earth"...and I wouldn't trade them for you. So, when I'm labeled "a racist", it is totally laughable. I'm not a racist...I am vehemently against "white supremacy", and hate, which are not hallmarks of Christian folk worth their salt. Simple.
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
Ah, but your premise seems to suggest that differences in "race", mean "clear-cut" advantages for some, and bleak prospects for others....something, I refuse to accept.
You say you don't feel inferior to anyone...yet, there are people on this very board who would tell you that you are. There are those who think you are nothing short of a monkey, and wish you would migrate back to Africa. Sad, but true. Of course, not to seem un-PC, there are those who will rush to deny this exists..."publicly", but in the privacy of their homes, and rooms, feel in sync with what I've alleged..."cept, they would never admit it..."publicly", although "some" would.

I am not bitter, nor am I jaded....on the contrary, I'm a hopeless, eternal optimist...and I believe in people's propensity to do "the right thing", despite the protestations of some members on this board.
I have friends who are white, and are "salt of the Earth"...and I wouldn't trade them for you. So, when I'm labeled "a racist", it is totally laughable. I'm not a racist...I am vehemently against "white supremacy", and hate, which are not hallmarks of Christian folk worth their salt. Simple.
If you wish to deny that some races tend to gravitate and excel in certain sports and talents, then that's up to you. But just as Italians build great sports cars, the French build pretty artistic looking cars, and Americans comparatively crude cars, there are tendencies between the races as well. But you are welcome to your opinions, and the most of us will continue to live in reality where the worlds diversity HAS created Peoples that have certain advantages.

Not every Japanese person of course is a mathematical genius, but then again, not every tall black guy, is a basketball star. At 6'6' however, I towered over the crowd in Japan when I was stationed there. So if nothing else, on average, the Japanese have a height disadvantage to other races.

I never labeled you a racist though. Just a bit bitter.

And any one that tells me to go back to Africa will be mistaken. I have never been there. And since I am mixed with some type of Indian, so I have plenty of right to be here. And if anyone feels superior to me, that's a novel notion, since no one here knows me.
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