Hi folks I'm new here. I see a few folks I've seen around the web here. Anyways, I'll get to the point.

I live in America. A country that for some reason, even though we have a rule book (the constitution) by which we're supposed to live by I can not for the life of me understand just where in the hell we get some of our policies. Specifically regarding gay people. Here is what I mean. (Please keep in mind that the speech I'm about to use is not meant to offend, but is a critical part of the point I'm trying to make.) I figure it might be censored anyways. Here we go.

Ok, so in this country, and most western countries I would imagine it is taboo to use the word fagot. For the most part using this word is looked down by liberals and conservatives, democrats and republicans alike. Saying fagot on TV or in public can result in condemnation and in many cases losing your job, or being accused of hate speech (a laughable concept in my eyes as to me there is only free speech). Now then. We're all aware of this politically correct phenomenon. So how then can it be perfectly acceptable to do something even worse, as far as the constitution is concerned, and deny gay people the right to get married, or join in a civil union, or what ever else they want to do? Does this seem strange to anyone else or am I just bat **** crazy? It is socially acceptable to restrict someone else's rights because you don't agree with their life style, but god forbid you call them a fagot, an offense that is easily forgotten and restricts no one's right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Any how, this is my opening post. Hope it made sense and wasn't too crass.

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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.

As long as I've understood your post correctly and you're wanting gay marriage to be legalised and equality of rights for homosexual partnerships then I'm with you. But I disagree about the use of the word "fagot", there's no need to use it and no need to be offensive deliberately.

Welcome to the forum btw.

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Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

I agree with there not being a need to go out of your way to make people feel bad, but in my eyes, calling someone a name is far less severe than infringing on their rights to live their life the way they want to. I didn't mean to imply that calling someone a fagot isn't a wrong, or even a big deal, but constitutionally I see no reason to keep gay people from being able to get married. In fact, I'm surprised that the supreme court hasn't come in and said that states can not make laws against homosexual marriage because it is unconstitutional to do so. If this marriage was not constitutional we wouldn't be hearing about plans to amend the constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman (which is a load of bullocks in my opinion).

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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.

In that case I'm in complete agreement with you, which whilst good on one level is really boring.

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Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

I think he means to point out the inconsistency of lawfully discriminating against a class of people while violating another law, the First Amendment, by not allowing anyone to call them by a slur because of political correctness. Please correct me if I've misunderstood, Incognito. Anyway, if that was your point, yes, it is inconsistent. However, calling someone a slur can be harassment or intimidation and there are laws against that.

Oops, I see other stuff was posted before I did this. Oh well. I need to type faster or use less words. :>P

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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."

No worries.

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Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

Essentially yes. Someone can get run out of town for practicing their freedom of speech with regards to homosexuals, but when it comes to the actual rights of the homosexuals they'll turn a blind eye or, more probably, simply ignore their right to those rights simply because they disagree with the lifestyle.

It is almost like the country is collectively saying, " Hey now, don't go around saying fagot because they'll get all riled up. Making the word fagot socially taboo might get them to shut up about this gay marriage stuff." Oh man, or even better, "Ok gay people, we'll take away some of our rights so that it doesn't seem as bad that we're denying some of yours."

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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.

It's a typical practice to offer the opressed some sort of token concession which is only aesthetic in order to distract them from their opression.

__________________
Trust me, I'm a socialist!

There's power in a factory,power in the land, power in the hand of the worker. But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand, there is power in a union.
The union forever defending our rights, down with the blackleg, workers unite. To our brothers and our sisters in many far off lands, there is power in a union.
Money speaks for money, the devil for his own. - Billy Bragg

Interesting perspective! I've never thought about it that way.

__________________


"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."

"Keep them happy in the small things and you can rule them in the large ones!"

~Unnamed character from Harry Turtledove's Darkness series

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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.